'Shroomfest (Round 6) - DOGS vs BIRDS

Status
Not open for further replies.

Thanos (Car)

from deltarune
Core 'Shroom Staff
Poll Committee
Pronouns
He/Him/His
"yeah but dinosaurs arent birds"
They are. Have you learned about evolution yet? No offense.
1641561754585.png

you telling me this is a bird?
i have learned about evolution and i am offended that youd try and get away with lying about it. first off, dinosaurs are reptiles. even if they have feathers they belong to an entirely separate class of animals to birds. its a pretty fundamental difference.

1641562166395.png

secondly, evolution is a one way relationship and just because birds evolved from dinosaurs doesn't mean dinosaurs ARE birds.

by your logic of 'any animal is the same as something that evolved from it' then the ancient monkeys were actually humans. the prehistoric fish and bacteria that evolved to become the foundation of life and land? also humans. theyre also birds, reptiles, dogs, etc
 

Hooded Pitohui

The Bird with Batrachotoxin!
Core 'Shroom Staff
Awards Committee
Poll Committee
Pronouns
He/him
MarioWiki
Hooded Pitohui

zelen !!

actual spore creature
Pronouns
she/her
wikipedia said:
Birds are feathered theropod dinosaurs and constitute the only known living dinosaurs. Likewise, birds are considered reptiles in the modern cladistic sense of the term, and their closest living relatives are the crocodilians.
edit: just posting this here with nothing else wont cut it but birds arent an entirely separtae class of animals. they dont suddenly stop being reptilese if they evolved from reptiles just like you dont stop being a mammal or an amniote or a tetrapod. so birds ARE reptiles not a Separate thing yes this also means you would be a fish

anyway yeah not all dinosaurs are birds yeah i just got hung up about one part about that one message
 
Last edited:

Thanos (Car)

from deltarune
Core 'Shroom Staff
Poll Committee
Pronouns
He/Him/His
more proof that birds are wretched and evil
now luigis mansion 3? great game. your biggest ally is a ghoulish dog
 

Hooded Pitohui

The Bird with Batrachotoxin!
Core 'Shroom Staff
Awards Committee
Poll Committee
Pronouns
He/him
MarioWiki
Hooded Pitohui
I'll weigh in on the cladistics talk for a moment to address it - in part because it seems there's some general confusion and I'd like people to be able to say they learned something - briefly.

As previously stated, birds are dinosaurs, but not all dinosaurs are birds. Likewise, birds are reptiles, but not all reptiles are birds. Only a specific subset of reptiles, that being the subset we refer to as "Class Aves" are "birds."

However! What if I told you that reptiles... don't really exist? I mean that in two ways. In one sense, no classifications - "birds," "reptiles," "fish," "mammals," actually exist, because we're just making up arbitrary classifications of different groupings of living creatures that are linked in a long, unbroken chain of descendants and ancestors.

But in another sense, and the one more important (because while classification is arbitrary, it is useful), reptiles, in particular, are not a taxonomic grouping on their own according to recent taxonomic trends.

Reptiles are what biologists and taxonomists call a "paraphyletic" group. That is to say that any label you can draw around "reptiles" - as they're commonly understand at least - is going to exclude at least some of the descendants of that group's last common ancestor. In other words, if you drew a branching tree of organisms, and you tried to circle "reptiles," you wouldn't be able to circle a particular point and every branch that comes off of that point.

Historically, we didn't much care about that, but, in recent times, we've shifted towards emphasizing monophyletic groups as a basic unit of our cladistic system. Monophyletic means that the group you're making includes a common ancestor and all of their descendants. In other words, if you go back to that tree, you get a monophyletic group if you pick a point, and then circle that point and everything that branches off of it. For a variety of reasons, we've turned to viewing this as a more useful way of organizing organisms than some of our traditional classifications.

Though, I'll note that "usefulness" is situational. There's still many everyday situations, for example, where it's useful to refer to certain groups of organisms as reptiles. Sometimes you want to talk about snakes and lizards and turtles all together but not talk about birds!

To make a long story short, yes, there is a distinct Class Aves and, thus, birds are a distinct class of organisms. Are they also reptiles? Yes and no. Reptiles are an ill-defined group. If you're trying to be accurate to contemporary taxonomy, you might say birds are reptiles. Not everyone needs to talk like a taxonomist, though, and, for some people, birds aren't reptiles. It all depends on whether you want to recognize reptiles at all, and how you want to talk about and define the group. So it's possible to say that birds are both a distinct Class (capitalized, specific definition) but not a distinct class (uncapitalized, everyday use, depending on how you want to define certain groups) compared to reptiles.

That all said, because there is a distinct Class Aves, whether birds are reptiles, all of that, it's not super-duper relevant to talking about what makes them (or dogs) cool. If you want to talk cool biology stuff, though? I'm always personally down for that, on Discord, in Mindless Junk or Off-Topic Discussion, any of that.

Anyways, I hope this (admittedly simplified) explanation can provide some useful information for anyone who is confused, and wasn't too boring for folks who already knew all of this. Hopefully this was a little educational!
 

Metal Etemon

That's what I call hamburgers
Awards Committee
Retired Wiki Staff
Former 'Shroom Staff
if birds are so evil why are all the looney tunes dogs such jerks
Barnyard dog always fighting foghorn leghorn because he's a jerk
Wile E. Coyote always trying to eat the poor innocent road runner despite the fact that Wile E. cleary has access to money and could just buy regular food.
Charlie Dog Always trying to force people to adopt him even though he's a jerk
Willoughby Dopey idiot trying to kill Bugs Bunny
Sam Sheepdog...okay he's pretty cool always trying to protect sheep but wait HE'S TRYING TO PROTECT THEM FROM A WOLF
 

Shy Guy on Wheels

Dry Bowser
Pronouns
HE/HIM
What about Captain Falcon. Imagine how much it would suck if he was called "Captain Dog". They would never make another f zero game. I don't even know what a dog is.
This is unfair considering his name is not "Captain Bird", it's a specific bird. For his name to fit into this argument, it would need to be a specific dog. Perhaps this list may be of help to finding cool names, as I am far too lazy to do it myself.
 

Shmaluigi

Off-Duty Private Investigator
Wiki Administrator
Core 'Shroom Staff
Awards Committee
Poll Committee
Pronouns
He/him
Wanna know about some cool bird related peeps?

Well's there's Falcon the first African-American superhero in mainstream comics! Birds are so super that they just had to make a superhero themed around'em.

There's also Hawkeye... who, yes is immediately less cool than Falcon but uh, yeah! Hawkeye is a master of the bow and arrow, with vision like a hawk. He's another example of human's looking at the skills of birds and giving those skills to some pretty rad peeps.

There's also Raven... She's named after the Raven, that bird is pretty rad. She also has super cool magic powers and can sense emotion and her dad's a demon dude. So basically, Raven is pretty cool, just like a bird.

So Judge Man, you got to admit those super heroes are pretty epic?
Ahaha, look at all those silly humans dressing up like birds... Let's take a look at the dog side of things, shall we?


Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's Krypto the Superdog! Yeah, that's right, a real dog - well, an alien dog admittedly, but still, a dog - not some goofball in a Halloween costume. Krypto was introduced in a 1955 story involving Superboy, and was originally intended as a one-off character, but the audience loved him so much that he got brought back as a regular character in Superboy stories. He even had his own cartoon from 2005 to 2006 and has appeared in other DC shows, movies, and games. He's also going to appear in the film DC League of Super-Pets this year, with a voice provided by Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson himself.

Now, admittedly I'm not that much of a Superman fan, I'm more of a Batman guy...

Oh look, it's Ace the Bat-Hound! Ace was introduced in 1955, the same year as Krypto. He was sadly dropped from the comics in 1964 in an effort to remove some of the "sillier" elements of Batman stories of the era, but has had a resurgence since the early 90's. Like Krypto, he's had his fair share of appearances in DC media.

Let's move over to the Marvel side of things... You mentioned Hawkeye, yeah?

Then let's take a look at his companion Lucky the Pizza Dog. It's a dog who loves pizza. Come on, how can you not love him? Lucky first appeared in a 2012 issue of Hawkeye where he saved the titular hero from some mafia goons! Speaking of Hawkeye, he recently got a Disney+ series. Guess who's in it? That's right, it's Lucky.


Bonus: Hope Corgi, who is sadly not a real comic character (he's based on DC's Lantern Corps) but is too goshdarn loveable not to mention.

By the way, I figure it's only fair to mention that bird themes aren't necessarily limited to the heroic characters you brought up... Ever heard of Vulture or The Penguin?
 

Meta Knight

Power Star
Former 'Shroom Staff
This is Brownie. She's very happy to see you all.
1641579180087.png


She's not very big, but she has a big heart and will love to jump around and play.

She gets tired a lot though, and sometimes she'll just be lazy in bed all day (and that's okay!). One time I caught her sprawled out and snoring.
1641579458729.png

It's time to get up at some point throughout the day, but she'll make sure to stay close to nice, warm blankets.
1641579534740.png

It won't be long though before she realizes you're not there because you're working in the other room, and she'll decide to have a little snooze near you.
1641579661836.png

Brownie is a good doggo.
 

Bluminescence

The Frenchiest French who has ever Frenched
Wiki Administrator
Poll Committee
Pronouns
She/her
MarioWiki
Ray Trace
Re: the whole dinosaurs being reptiles thing, t rexes have far much more common with chickens than they do with alligators and turtles
 

zelen !!

actual spore creature
Pronouns
she/her
Willow

thats it thats the post
( ive been playing angry birds stella again but on bluestacks this time )
( i have never seen a dog thats as cute as this birt ! )

sorry for not elaborating again got dangit heres why willow is so good:
- she is relatable because shes an artist with at least some self doubt issues. like me!
- peak character design
- her power in this game is genuinely some of the best (out of the like. 5 birds that are in this game...) she can go in pretty much any direction and just Drill there. even despite the ability not being the best with strength, especially against rock, this ability is p versatile and makes her one of the two birds youll want to use when you can (alongside dahlia who just teleports a short distance forward and makes an explosion basically)
- EVEN BETTER: During the ability she basically keysmashes ( https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/871798419381944370/929069129682542652/2022-01-07_20-48-40.mp4 paste this into discord so it embeds bc otherwise youll have to download it. youshould hear the keysmash )
- let me elaborate on peak character design. eyes with bottom eyelashes only. that is Peak Character Design Trait and so is the big hat
- she can also move the feathers at her sides around and basically use them like limbs, which isnt seen very often but IS sometimes and its just funny and great
- this
- you cant spell WILLOW without WLW and also in willows diary she referred to stella as being pretty like THREE times. This Bird Is Sapphic



- And everyone loves wilow

and did you know i like matilda just as much? want me to write a post about her too?
 
Last edited:

Lakituthequick

Avatar by Mr. Edo
Core 'Shroom Staff
Awards Committee
Pronouns
He/him
Let's talk about something else: Internet Protocol over Avian Carriers (IPoAC).

IPoAC is a way of sending network packets and data using birds. The protocol has been proposed across three Request for Comments (RFC) documents:
  • RFC1149: A Standard for the Transmission of IP Datagrams on Avian Carriers (1990)
  • RFC2549: IP over Avian Carriers with Quality of Service (1999)
  • RFC6214: Adaptation of RFC 1149 for IPv6 (2011)

The primary avian carrier is, of course, the homing pigeon, however, as RFC2549 suggests, large birds like ostriches are also usable, especially since they can carry larger packets (albeit at a lower speed).
Speaking of speed, let's talk about speed! The standards describe that standard IP packets are to be written or printed on small bits of paper, which are limited in length by the length of the carrier's leg. Then, the bird flies to their destination, where the paper is scanned. IP packets are between 21 and 65535 bytes, although the defacto standard is 1500 bytes. Sending 1500 bytes with a single bird, which can take hours or days to go from A to B... is not ideal admittedly. There is also a margin of error, as can be seen in a testflight of the protocol that sent nine 'ping' packets and received four back. In that example there is a throughput of about 0.1 bps (2.2 bps if assuming 1500 bytes instead of the 64 used in their ping).

There have, however, been a few... liberties... taken upon the protocol to increase the speed a bit. Y'see, the method from the RFCs relies on putting the bytes on paper in a way that humans could visually read them and digitise it with a scanner. This is of course highly limiting the size of packets that can be transmitted.
One thing that has been done in is, instead of attaching paper, attaching flash drives to pigeons. In 2004, this was done with three pigeons carrying a total of 4 GB in just under four hours over a distance of 100 km, which is about 2.27 Mbps. Not much by today's standards, but back then the available ADSL bandwidth was 0.75 – 1.5 Mbps! Today, there are microSD cards of 1 TB available, which, following the same maths, equals about 545.7 Mbps! Probably reachable with fibreglass, but not with the cable I have. Attach multiple of them to one bird (a microSD card weighs a quarter gram; pigeons can carry 30-50 grams, possible more)... you do the maths.

A similar experiment was also conducted in Australia in 2009: as a response to prime minister Kevin Rudd criticising the opposition for their stance on supporting telecommunication, saying that "if the liberals had their way, Australians would be left using carrier pigeons for the future". In response, Hungry Beast sent 700 MB of data by pigeon, car, and the largest ADSL network, over a distance of 132 km. The pigeon got there first (1h 05m), then the car (2h 10m), and the ADSL line crashed twice and never made it at all.



As a bonus, here are some highlights from the RFCs:

  • RFC1149
    • Multiple types of service can be provided with a prioritized pecking order. An additional property is built-in worm detection and eradication. Because IP only guarantees best effort delivery, loss of a carrier can be tolerated. With time, the carriers are self-regenerating. While broadcasting is not specified, storms can cause data loss. There is persistent delivery retry, until the carrier drops. Audit trails are automatically generated, and can often be found on logs and cable trays.
  • RFC2549
    • When carrying web traffic, the carriers may digest the spiders, leaving behind a more compact representation. The carriers may be confused by mirrors.
    • Round-robin queueing is not recommended. Robins make for well-tuned networks but do not support the necessary auto-homing feature.
    • Multicasting is supported, but requires the implementation of a clone device. Carriers may be lost if they are based on a tree as it is being pruned. The carriers propagate via an inheritance tree. The carriers have an average TTL of 15 years, so their use in expanding ring searches is limited.
    • Additional quality of service discussion can be found in a Michelin's guide.
    • The carriers will not line up in lexigraphic order but will naturally order in a large V shape.
    • Patent Considerations
      There is ongoing litigation about which is the prior art: carrier or egg.
  • RFC6214
    • Implementations SHOULD NOT even try to use stateless address auto-configuration [RFC4862]. This recommendation is because this mechanism requires a stable interface identifier formed in a way compatible with [RFC4291]. Unfortunately the transmission elements specified by RFC 1149 are not generally stable enough for this and may become highly unstable in the presence of a cross-wind.
    • There is evidence that some carriers have a propensity to eat other carriers and then carry the eaten payloads. Perhaps this provides a new way to tunnel an IPv4 packet in an IPv6 payload, or vice versa. However, the decapsulation mechanism is unclear at the time of this writing.
    • There is a known risk of infection by the so-called H5N1 virus. Appropriate detection and quarantine measures MUST be available.
 

zelen !!

actual spore creature
Pronouns
she/her
and did you know i like matilda just as much? want me to write a post about her too?
not gonna wait for anyones approval im gonna TAKE the opportunity to ramble about my comfort characters even if im still only talking about angry heckinf birds
- matildas designs are great and she has really good expressions in toons (which also has my favorite design of her)


- on the topic of other designs the classic design is just kind of nice.plushies of that always look really gentle too heres an image i pulled from ebay too

even the movie design can be really good too,. this especially surprised me recently bc i was iffy on it for a while but nope i like it turns out

theres also some other designs that only appeared in like one thing that i like too
im spending so much talking about her designs bc she got like a lot of design variations and its just pretty interesting and theyre p good in their own ways!
i didnt focus on that with willow bc the only other design really is like, the movie design? which i do like the vibe of too but yeah this isnt about her

- Its never been explicitly stated but you can very eaisly headcanon that she is trans 👍👍 even with what her ability in the slingshot games is
Whats more concrete is also being sapphic though (matilda is to the right on this image)

- good usage in angry birds epic bc most of her classes can heal the rest of the team in some way and thats always welcome . also she can have decent damage output too! also she gets nice looking hats/wigs


- On the topic of personality (and whatever else i end up rambling about in this section) finally its also p interesting. shes a pacifist and very friendly generally! but also unfortunatley has a Bad Temper and thats issues every bird has issues ! and thats an interesting dilemma! if she hurts her friends she will of course immediately feel bad too
she also has like? so many hobbies? most often seen in toons and toons adjacent stuff (the comics) is gardening and . sometimes cooking, and also one off appearances of Saxophone (epic sax off is a GREAT toons ep), Watching Pig Hockey Matches (she even participates (this ep is cold justice)), Drawing (in a comic) which lead to this great image i saved as "art mood.png"

also other stuff i cant think of
oh yeah anyway shes also the local mom friend you know those
also she often like, hums little songs in toons? very nice. i like her voice in toons also fun fact she shares her voice actor with chuck, corporal pig, bubbles, handsome pig and minion pigs which is kind of bonkers isnt it?
im not describing this v well but heressss da wiki section on her personality!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

- Do yuo like underappreciated characters because SHE IS ONE!!! Both by rovio AND by the fandom for some reason!!! I hope i can convince more people that she is really good i cant be alone on this

- i like mtilda
egg birt

hello do super lengthy ramblings about a bird count for team bird please i put so much effort into this
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top