Sheep Mafia 2021 Game Thread - Night 5: Baaaaaaaaaaa :(

fantanoice

I can see through time
My theory is
- SGoW is Mafia
- SGoW claimed Vig expecting the actual Vig to roleclaim
- Flotzo claimed to be the actual Vig
- Now the Mafia know 2 of the roled players - assuming BLoF and Flotzo are both telling the truth

It's also possible Flotzo fakeclaimed to get us to target SGoW.

Or they're both lying for... some reason...?

I think we target someone who's not these two today. Then the real Vig can kill the Imposter tonight.
 

Charlie Brown

y is loogi sadd?? plese halp himn
Poll Committee

Rosa: WHOA! Someone OHKO'd the wolfie! Hoooooooray! Now this raises a lot of interesting questions! This casts Sir Kong in an interesting li--

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Rosa: WAIT WHAT!?!? You say you're the Vigilante!? Wha-- Rimi's-- WHAAAAATTT!!!!!!!!!!

Well this is a wild situation! What do you have to respond to this, Sir Kong? (Also you're from Galar, aren't you?)
@⠀⠀⠀

Anyways I think Ms. Fanta's plan is solid even though I can't wait to find out the truth. I still wanna hear what both "vigilantes" have to say for themselves though!

As for another person, Mr. Badd is not living up to his name as he has been temporarily mostly cleared of suspicion! However, there have been some rumors that he is the cop. Not that I'd want to out him if he was and hasn't already said so, but Zote said he had already claimed it. So Mr. Badd @Koops , is it true that you claimed to be the cop? The answer to this question is only yes if you have already claimed to be the cop. Don't claim now if you haven't already! If it is true that you have previously claimed to be cop, do you have any juicy info to share? We'd sure appreciate it!
 

Goombuigi

The Luigi-fied Goomba
Awards Committee
Poll Committee
(Before anyone else accuses me of further inactivity, I'd like to say that I just finished reading through the Day 3 posts so far, but I'll probably have to read through then a couple more times to fully formulate my thoughts. I'll also need to update my sus chart quite a bit. I do have some quick thoughts, though - I think Power Flotzo is the real Vigilante, and the reason SGOW claimed the vigilante role was to escape suspicion. I've noticed that during the course of this game, Flotzo doesn't really speak up unless pressured. Therefore, SGOW claiming to be a role that he had would have pressured him to speak up. Flotzo doesn't seem like he would fakeclaim it, since he tends to generally play safe.)
 

Koops

Epic


Now HOLD THE PHONE... What the hell is happening around here? Interpol Agent Shi-Long Lang... was a criminal? What sort of nightmare is this?! And Kong is claiming to be a vigilante only for Rimi to... claim it back... and... I am lost...



I never had a chance to speak to him after that one time but I suppose that's for the better... And to think he was attempting to put blame on myself... Yeah, it all makes sense now... And his subsequent successful attempt on Judge Judy... it's all... coming together... Can't say I don't love it... This is the kind of case I live for, I suppose...



Now of course... we need to get serious here a little... Up to this point, it's already been said that Kong is indeed a suspicious individual... and that I agree with... what I find interesting here however, is the nature of the claim itself... I see a few possible scenarios here... either Kong is telling the truth, and he really is a vigilante, or he isn't, and is just a regular vigilante, or... he could also be a wolf passing himself for a vigilante... and in either case, I have to admit... it is hard to decide our next course of action...



To make such a claim in the first place would incite the wolves to move in on you, but if Kong is aware of that fact, he might be diverting attention from the true vigilante... if not, however, then the mafia would indeed be killing the biggest threat against them... but if they decide to let him live, then I could see making a case against people Kong doesn't suspect as of now... Either way, this was... either the dumbest thing ever... or the most genius move... Not only has the vigilante claimed the life of a wolf, but he's also caused confusion for the wolves, no doubt...



Now to address Rimi-chan... san... sama... whatever it is...'s claim... This is where things get even more interesting, to say the least... now assuming Kong is telling the truth... what does Rimi intend to accomplish... by claiming a lie... and conversely... if Kong is the one lying, then why would Rimi put herself on the line for him... We must also consider the possibility that both may be lying to either protect the real vigilante or cause confusion among... all of us...



Now let's all also keep in mind that the identity of that vigilante isn't something that should be looked into, but Rimi and Kong are definitely up for questioning right now... Whether they really are telling the truth or not, the truth about them must come out before I make any further judgements on this...
 

Goombuigi

The Luigi-fied Goomba
Awards Committee
Poll Committee
It was a sunny morning on the island of Sodor. Birds were chirping, flowers were blooming, and Diesel was getting ready to join the other sheep. While deep in thought, his driver came back with a cup of cocoa.
"Come on, old boy," said his driver, as he hopped inside his cab. "We have investigations to do today."
"I know," replied Diesel. "I know."


DirtyWork48.png

Diesel: Well, it turns out there are a number of events that happened already. A wolf is dead, and two people have claimed to be the vigilante. Very interesting.

Guess who else has posted very little so far? And who shares a similar ranking to Sir Lang on Sir Zote's sus list? And who has gone nearly unnoticed by most of us? Diesel.
I won't make the move to vote you just yet, but would you care to explain yourself @Goombuigi?
PopGoestheDiesel26.jpg

Diesel: Let me get this straight: you think that I'm suspicious because Zote considered me as not suspicious on his chart? To address your other question, I would like to think that I haven't gone unnoticed by most, and that I actually play a fairly big role in the investigation. I suppose not many would agree with me on that, though. I may have not mentioned it yet, but I am innocent, and if I can, then I will find a way to prove it.

PopGoestheDiesel23.png

Diesel: But of course, I can't ignore the elephant in the room. There can only be one vigilante - Rimi Ushigome or Funky Kong. Despite having pressured her earlier, I think that Rimi is the true vigilante. She doesn't tend to appear unless put under pressure, which in this case, she would be due to Funky claiming a role that she would have. As for why Funky claimed it, likely due to the fact that he was considered suspicious by others for nearly the entirety of the game, but the question remains whether he's a wolf masking himself as a vigilante, or an innocent in desperate need to clear suspicion from himself. My guess is that he wouldn't fakeclaim if he wasn't a wolf. I'd like to hear more from both of them before I place a vote, though.
 

Shy Guy on Wheels

i hate video games.
I think we target someone who's not these two today. Then the real Vig can kill the Imposter tonight.
Anyways I think Ms. Fanta's plan is solid even though I can't wait to find out the truth. I still wanna hear what both "vigilantes" have to say for themselves though!
I do not think this is a solid plan, as it will just end up both members killing each other. The Mafia kills the Vig, and the Vig kills the Mafia. That's not solving the situation, that's just letting both people die.

Now, in total, Flotzo has five posts, let's read them shall we:
Hello everyone... It's me, Rimi-rin. I... I see the game has already started, and people have already cast stones toward me.

I have been somewhat inactive, but don't worry about it. I've kept an eye on the game ever since it began!

About this SGoW person... He seems a bit sketchy, but like others have said, the risk is just too great.

So my option for now is to
Vote: No Lynch.
I chose to keep my vote because it's too much of a crapshoot to vote off someone this early in the game, as I had found out in Rogues in Rogueport. The only option now is to sit back and wait, because then someone's alignment is likely going to be revealed after they die.
It seems as though I've been targeted during this phase, so I think it would be a good idea to see if I can force a confession out of the one putting pressure on me in the first place.
Vote: Goombuigi
Those people I suspect to be mafia, huh?...

Well, now that I think about it, I definitely think Señor Oveja's relative silence during this phase is a bit concerning. To be frank, I think he''d have more to confess about the possible identities of the wolves than the one putting pressure on me in the first place.

Unvote: Goombuigi
Vote: Señor Oveja
Hello again... I see a wolf has been taken out for once. That's definitely unexpected.

Well, first off I'd like to...


Fufu. Shall I take care of this, my little kitten?

O-of course, Kaoru-san!

https://i.bandori.party/u/c/transparent/545Kaoru-Seta-Happy-Prince-of-Rumours-rfOmJW.png

Allow me to introduce myself. My name is Kaoru Seta, and I was practicing for HelloHappy's next live when my little kitten, Rimi-chan, informed me that she was playing a game known as "Mafia." Seeing as such an experience would be fleeting, I gladly agreed to help her out. And I can claim that Mr. British Funky Kong is lying, for Rimi-chan is actually the vigilante. She murdered Mr. Shi-Long Lang because he led the campaign to kill the late Judge Judy, raising my little kitten's suspicions and causing her to believe Lang was a wolf.

I shall defend my little kittens with my life, especially Rimi-chan. But for now, I must leave. Farewell!
I don't know why this is important or what the fuck I'm trying to say, but I'm saying he has five posts, and you can read all of them right now.

But this is also the most frustrating part, I've posted enough as to, if I was the one to kill GBA, there would at least be a hint of this in one of my earlier posts (e.g. the spreadsheet). Flotzo posts infequently enough as to where, we'd have no way of knowing what he's actually thinking, and as such he can just claim something, and we can believe him, because there's no way we would know that wasn't what he was thinking. So, despite the fact that he didn't acknowledge GBA once during the course of the entire game, until it becomes very convenient to prove he's the vig, having similar reasoning to suspect GBA as I did... it's still very much possible he's telling the truth, because we don't know enough as to where we could say that wasn't what he was thinking!

Flotzo has given us nothing to work off, and I'm going to get lynched for it! Either this is a brilliant strategy, or (more likely considering his track record of not playing), he's just really inactive.

I do also have to acknowledge Goombuigi's point, because he does make a good one. With the exception of the first day phase, all of Flotzo's posts have been in response to accusations. Whether that be a question as to why voted he way he did, a pressure vote, suspicions of mafia, or, in this case, a roleclaim. I've spent half an hour trying to make a comeback to this and decided I don't need to, just read the rest of the post. There is no comeback to this specific statement in there, but I decided I don't need one.

essentially, I'm working with very little to actually prove anything about Flotzo, give me a break okay.

As for why Funky claimed it, likely due to the fact that he was considered suspicious by others for nearly the entirety of the game, but the question remains whether he's a wolf masking himself as a vigilante, or an innocent in desperate need to clear suspicion from himself. My guess is that he wouldn't fakeclaim if he wasn't a wolf. I'd like to hear more from both of them before I place a vote, though.
no I claimed it because I'm the real vigilante.

Also, I'm legally obliged to do this, vote: flotzo, you lying fuck.
 

Matlock

That's what I call hamburgers
Retired Wiki Staff
Former 'Shroom Staff
Tbf to flotzo the best vig's hide in the shadows doing enough to keep suspicion away until it's time to land that shot
The fact that Flotzo wasn't making a lot of waves could have been a tactic to keep the mafia thinking they were nothing but an unimportant sheep not worth wasting a night kill on.
When in reality Flotzo was figuring out who the right target was.
Now granted a lot of this could also apply to Sgow
but it's just food for thought.
 

fantanoice

I can see through time
@Rowlf the Dog Can you confirm: If the Vig uses their role the same night they're killed, does their kill still go through? 🤔 Gonna post assuming that's the case.

I do not think this is a solid plan, as it will just end up both members killing each other. The Mafia kills the Vig, and the Vig kills the Mafia. That's not solving the situation, that's just letting both people die.
Assuming one of you is the Vig and the other mafia, then we have a 50-50 shot of a great outcome or a horrible one. Compare that to waiting for the night phase. The Vig knows who they are. They know who the Imposter is. The Lounge Thread says there's no Blocker role on the Mafia side. So it's pew pew, 100% mafia kill.

Yes, they can kill the Vig in response. But that exchange is in the innocents favour.
- Earlier in the game I estimated 5 Mafia members (which is already on the high range). 1 of them is dead. There's 15 players left. We're looking at a ratio of 11:4 inno to mafia now (73% inno). If the exchange happens, it's 10:3 (77% inno).
- Assuming that happens AND we happen to mislynch someone else today, that leaves 9:3 (75% inno). Which is STILL an improvement
- It's way less risky to do it this way because we avoid a coin flip mislynch
- If the Mafia go through with it, they'd be killing off a player who is basically a vanilla sheep at that point (because the Vig will be all out of kills). Which out of all the outcomes isn't the worst.
- The Vig would have 2 successful kills at N3 which is a crazy good innings

So yeah, I think it is a very good idea.


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Galaxy brain play that I don't think is the case BUT WHAT IF:
- They're both Mafia
- They're to get us to lynch one of them to 'fake confirm' the other


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So at this point I'm trying to think of another target. I was thinking Koops but GBA voted them D1. It's possible he voted one of his own but I'm going to go with one of my other high scumleads for now. Going to Vote: LakituTheQuick.
- Inactive for a lot of the game
- They did add some thoughts but that was only recently
- A lot of those thoughts were rehashing what other people said
- Like YSSM's rhyming, the non-English text is bothering me a lot. I don't like having to search through a wall of text to find something I can read in a deduction game. If they're inno, then doing that is actively working against the team
 

Hooded Pitohui

The Bird with Batrachotoxin!
Core 'Shroom Staff
Awards Committee
Poll Committee
Morris_Happy.png
: Good morning, all members of the newly-formed Joja Investigative Team. Yes, that's correct. My request to corporate has finally been approved. You're all on our official payroll now that your training period has ended.



Morris_Happy.png
: Between this good news and the fact that our current situation will almost assuredly lead us to discovering a wolf, we should approach this day of our investigation with cheer and vigor.



Morris_Annoyed.png
: Moving onto business, however, I've been thinking about this situation all night since departing work, and I had a concern come up. It seems, actually, that Mr. Kong had the same concern.



I think we target someone who's not these two today. Then the real Vig can kill the Imposter tonight.
I do not think this is a solid plan, as it will just end up both members killing each other. The Mafia kills the Vig, and the Vig kills the Mafia. That's not solving the situation, that's just letting both people die.
Morris_Annoyed.png
: If we do nothing to resolve this situation, we can reasonably expect that both our vigilante and the false-vigilante will die. Either our resident medical expert will attempt to protect our vigilante, which is essentially a coin flip, since they could just as easily protect our false vigilante, setting us back, or they agree to protect neither, which ensures both will die. In either case- Oh! It appears that Ms. Fantanoice has addressed this concern as I type this very message.



Morris_Happy.png
: Your explanation seems to hold water. This does, however, appear to depend on the assumption that our resident medical technician chooses not to protect either of the claimed vigilantes. But it appears that this strategy could pay off. There is still time in the investigation to follow that strategy, and, Ms. Fantanoice, it has my support.



Morris_Annoyed.png
: However... I would like to point out something that is... bothering me. I would like this cleared up before I aid Ms. Fantanoice. I have no direct stake in the resolution of this situation in the favour of Mr. Kong or Rimi-san. Whichever one of them we choose to terminate, if we were to terminate them, I would be placed at no risk. Most of us would be placed at no direct risk if we chose to terminate one of the two. Naturally, most of us would have a reason to bring up this concern with Ms. Fantanoice's plan. But... why should Mr. Kong be so eager to argue against it? If he is the vigilante, he would, as Ms. Fantanoice explained, be able to kill Rimi-san tonight, and would be nothing more than a regular, innocent sheep after using his last kill. We know he's willing, like Zote was, to sacrifice other innocent teammates so long as it advances the goal of killing wolves, at least while we have a strong numerical advantage, as we do now. Why would he have any reason to object to this arrangement? Either he would face a 50% chance of being terminated, or he would face a near 100% chance of being killed in the night while fulfilling his duty of killing a wolf. I would think he would prefer the latter.



Morris_Annoyed.png
: Unless... there is some off-chance that... Mr. Kong is not the vigilante, of course. If he is a wolf, he would have more reason to worry about numbers. He would have reason to want to conserve his number as long as possible, due to the wolves being at a numerical disadvantage. In this case, pushing for the 50%-50% vote is slightly better than the 100% kill. It forces us to waste the next day of our investigation killing him off, with the actual vigilante dead, and secures the wolves one additional free kill. And... there is one more possibility. It's only a slim possibility, but Mr. Kong has demonstrated unusual behavior and a willingness to work recklessly throughout this investigation. If Mr. Kong happens to be an innocent who for some reason is lying about being the vigilante to save his own skin - again, highly unlikely, but, take into account what Mr. Diesel is saying and Mr. Kong's strange pattern of behavior up to this point - then he would certainly have reason to worry about Ms. Fantanoice's plans, as he could die without any chance of retaliating.



Morris_Annoyed.png
: It's all very unusual, and I don't fully understand it. I intend to understand it. In order to do so, I think we need, while there is time still, to apply some pressure. Unvote. I will Vote: Mr. Kong (SGoW) and ask why, if you are the vigilante, you would have had any reason to object to Ms Fantanoice's plans?
 

Charlie Brown

y is loogi sadd?? plese halp himn
Poll Committee

Snividoodle: My owner is currently smelling some roses and thus is too distracted to pay attention, so I will handle this. Probably better anyway. So if we wait till nigh--

Oh, bother. Ms. Fanta has just said nearly everything I was planning to say. Great minds think alike, no? But I shall still reiterate it. Please excuse me for getting all consequentialist on you all, but it would still be a net benefit to the town if both the vigilante and the mafia imposter died. The vigilante will at that point merely be a miller sheep with no extra powers, and thus them dying would bear no greater consequences than any other vanilla sheep. Meanwhile, we will have eliminated yet another mafia member. Furthermore, neither of the claimed vigilantes have been particularly active in day discussions, so the loss in that area would also be minimal.

Let's look at the alternatives, if we lynch one of them. If we get it right, we indeed have a better outcome, as the mafia member is dead and the vigilante still has another kill. Still, the mafia would likely instantly target them, but the doctor could then protect them with there being no question about who the impostor was. However, all of this is dependent on us guessing correctly. If we get it wrong, we will have wasted the vigilante's last kill and we would have to waste the entirety of day 4 lynching the now-confirmed mafia member. I still think it the safer option to wait till the night.

Of course if our dear host reveals that our assumptions on the vigilante's role are false then this will all become moot, but until then this is my stance.

Anyway, I had a question for Koo-- heh heh, Mr. Badd that did not quite get answered. Let me ask it more clearly:


I've been assigned as this case's lead detective... Name's Badd. Tyrell Badd... Do with that info... what you will.
Was this post meant to be a roleclaim, or was it merely flavor text based on your... heh, "actual real life job"? ...Yes, I'm referring to rp. And you somehow know exactly what I mean... Only Zote really seemed to think this, but I would like this cleared up so we can move past it if it was a mistake on his part. If it was indeed a roleclaim, then I would think you would have some info to share. If not, then it means nothing as to whether or not you actually are the cop, so worry not about that.

One more thing to address:

However... I would like to point out something that is... bothering me. I would like this cleared up before I aid Ms. Fantanoice. I have no direct stake in the resolution of this situation in the favour of Mr. Kong or Rimi-san. Whichever one of them we choose to terminate, if we were to terminate them, I would be placed at no risk. Most of us would be placed at no direct risk if we chose to terminate one of the two. Naturally, most of us would have a reason to bring up this concern with Ms. Fantanoice's plan. But... why should Mr. Kong be so eager to argue against it? If he is the vigilante, he would, as Ms. Fantanoice explained, be able to kill Rimi-san tonight, and would be nothing more than a regular, innocent sheep after using his last kill. We know he's willing, like Zote was, to sacrifice other innocent teammates so long as it advances the goal of killing wolves, at least while we have a strong numerical advantage, as we do now. Why would he have any reason to object to this arrangement? Either he would face a 50% chance of being terminated, or he would face a near 100% chance of being killed in the night while fulfilling his duty of killing a wolf. I would think he would prefer the latter.
This is a very good point, and while Mr. Morris here has pressured the alleged Kong into responding, I would like to see this from the other side. @Rimi Ushigome , what do you think of Fanta's plan? Of course, it would be easy for Rimi-Flotzo-san to say the thing that establishes innocence now that Mr. Morris has already explained it, but I think the info should be valuable no matter what.
 

Shy Guy on Wheels

i hate video games.
This does, however, appear to depend on the assumption that our resident medical technician chooses not to protect either of the claimed vigilantes.
which would be worse, because then we would be back to the 50% chance of killing a Mafia, except now it's down to who exactly one person believes is Mafia, rather then an entire group.

We know he's willing, like Zote was, to sacrifice other innocent teammates so long as it advances the goal of killing wolves, at least while we have a strong numerical advantage, as we do now. Why would he have any reason to object to this arrangement? Either he would face a 50% chance of being terminated, or he would face a near 100% chance of being killed in the night while fulfilling his duty of killing a wolf. I would think he would prefer the latter.
this is forgetting the fact that I'm okay with a teammate dying, not myself. I am allowed to be selfish and proiritise my own life above others, and I think I will do that.

ask why, if you are the vigilante, you would have had any reason to object to Ms Fantanoice's plans?
because in this situation, I would die. I would rather not do that thank you.

I'm not saying this is a solution that can't be used, I just feel it would prefer one where I didn't... die. If you all want to avoid voting for me and flotzo and just, let this happen, then go right ahead, I can't stop you, but if I had a choice, I would prefer to find a different solution (don't ask me for any I don't have them).

also Fanta's post on this has kind of convinced a little more that this might be a good idea (you can tell because I gave the post a "Like").
 

Lakituthequick

Celestial Guide
Core 'Shroom Staff
Awards Committee
Poll Committee
So at this point I'm trying to think of another target. I was thinking Koops but GBA voted them D1. It's possible he voted one of his own but I'm going to go with one of my other high scumleads for now. Going to Vote: LakituTheQuick.
- Inactive for a lot of the game
- They did add some thoughts but that was only recently
- A lot of those thoughts were rehashing what other people said
- Like YSSM's rhyming, the non-English text is bothering me a lot. I don't like having to search through a wall of text to find something I can read in a deduction game. If they're inno, then doing that is actively working against the team
Señor Oveja
Similar to
señor Lang, I have other obligations to attend to. By the time I could fully make up my thoughts, la mayoría had already put out their thoughts. Naturally, my own thoughts overlap with existing ones. ¿What did you expect from me beyond that?
Señor Oveja
I will try to tone down my acento español if it bothers you too much.
Señor Oveja
On hoy dia's vigilante topic, I am tempted to agree with
señor Morris and
señora fantanoice. Thus, I will votar
señor Kong soon, but will wait for a few more responses lest people will accuse me of sheeping once again. It's not looking good for him though.
 

Hooded Pitohui

The Bird with Batrachotoxin!
Core 'Shroom Staff
Awards Committee
Poll Committee
this is forgetting the fact that I'm okay with a teammate dying, not myself. I am allowed to be selfish and proiritise my own life above others, and I think I will do that.

Morris_Annoyed.png
: Then you aren't that much of an asset to our staff, are you? This isn't the approach of a team player. I'm not one for losing members of our team where we don't have to, but, even I must admit that, Zote was right long ago. There are occasionally moments where the cost-benefit analysis comes out in such a way that losing an innocent when there is a reasonable chance of them being a wolf is not the worst outcome.



which would be worse, because then we would be back to the 50% chance of killing a Mafia, except now it's down to who exactly one person believes is Mafia, rather then an entire group.
Morris_Annoyed.png
: I'm not following this concern. If the medical technician at our site protects no one, and assuming one of you and Rimi-san is the vigilante and the other is a wolf, this is, as has been explained previously, a guaranteed mutual kill. If for some reason the doctor protected one of you, then it would come down to a coin flip. If the doctor protected the wolf, then the vigilante would die and the wolf would live, and vice versa for the doctor protecting the vigilante. How does the doctor not protecting someone cause us to go back to a 50%-50% chance?




(SGoW, I know you've been getting a bit heated at certain points in this game, so I feel it's important to clearly and pre-emptively address this out of character, out of the context of the game. You know I like you personally. You know I don't have anything against you. If I'm pressuring you and suspecting you, it's solely because of what you've done and said in the course of this game and because of the actual cost-benefit analysis of "what's the risk of a mislynch versus the risk of this player being a wolf?". I just want you to know that there's no hard feelings and no animosity. I don't want to see anyone getting upset over a game like this, y'know?)
 

Koops

Epic


No, kid... that instance of me saying I was the case's lead detective... was in fact... not a role claim... you may rest easy there.

Now Mr Kong... I can see your reasoning here... and it makes sense to me... after all, preserving one's own well-being and prioritizing it is a natural... human instinct... but... to roleclaim now, just as the votes are starting to pile up on you... don't you think that's suspicious? Even as a last ditch effort? My question to you here is, why did you wait until now to roleclaim? And even so, roleclaiming to be the vigilante.. only serves to put you under the wolves' radar even further... this all just seems strange to me... People have been suspicious of you before, myself included on the first day after your... "meme lynch"... so I don't see how claiming to be the vigilante now benefits your situation at all...



I advice you to choose your next words very carefully...
 

Shy Guy on Wheels

i hate video games.
Morris_Annoyed.png
: I'm not following this concern. If the medical technician at our site protects no one, and assuming one of you and Rimi-san is the vigilante and the other is a wolf, this is, as has been explained previously, a guaranteed mutual kill. If for some reason the doctor protected one of you, then it would come down to a coin flip. If the doctor protected the wolf, then the vigilante would die and the wolf would live, and vice versa for the doctor protecting the vigilante. How does the doctor not protecting someone cause us to go back to a 50%-50% chance?
maybe I misunderstood you? from what I was gathering, you're statement implied that my reasoning was based on the fact that the doctor wouldn't protect anyone, and you was implying the doctor could protect someone? which would make it better? and I was arguing the doctor protecting someone would be worse, not better.

I would go, "yeah, sure, let's do the thing where I kill the mafia in the night and also die", but I feel that if I say that then I'm going to be suspected of being Mafia for changing my mind, after people politely explained to me "hey, this might be a good idea".

My question to you here is, why did you wait until now to roleclaim?
I haven't roleclaimed as I haven't felt my role has been very relevant or important. Also there's the fact that it would bringing my chances of dying during the night from very low (the mafia could get a mislynch off me), to very high (I could kill a member of the Mafia).

Yes, I know I was the one who brought my role into the discussion, however I felt it was important as GBA's death (something I caused), was being used as evidence I was Mafia, and I wanted to clear it up and say I was suspicious of GBA, I was the reason he died.
 

Glitz Yoshi

I'm Yoshi the Space Station Manager from the wiki.
“Being former inno game removal person, in this situation, I would try my hardest to make sure of the wolf lynch as I did in my first game against GBAToad. But at the same time, consider this wait until night approach, especially if I could not do the former.
But in either case, I do indeed see him as vanilla after the second game removal, as I see the Miller as vanilla. As, Miller doesn’t affect you, but instead the cop. And thus, since it doesn’t add any to that role, Miller is a vanilla.
Anyways, we need Revin’s response to what would happen if inno game removal person were to remove someone the same night they were removed by mafia. Now, if I were a host in this situation, other than two situations, I would do both. These exceptions would be (a) inno removal was on the godfather and (b) there was only one mafia member left. In which case, I would only do one. I am not sure which way, though.
Finally, we should find out info about both, from both themselves as well as people commenting on them. No matter either option. So I will ask SGOW and Power Flotzo some questions. What do you think of Mags? And finally, besides the other person, who do you think is mafia?”
 

Hooded Pitohui

The Bird with Batrachotoxin!
Core 'Shroom Staff
Awards Committee
Poll Committee
maybe I misunderstood you? from what I was gathering, you're statement implied that my reasoning was based on the fact that the doctor wouldn't protect anyone, and you was implying the doctor could protect someone? which would make it better? and I was arguing the doctor protecting someone would be worse, not better.
MorrisDefault.png
: I see where you misunderstood this, so allow me to clarify. The words you initially quoted, my bolded words above, were not a response to you or a commentary on your reasoning. I was making explicit and implicit assumption in Ms. Fantanoice's plan. Her plan depends on the assumption that the doctor will not protect either of the claimed vigilantes. To eliminate any ambiguity, I wanted to state that clearly for the group.
 

Waluigi Time

Punch-Out!!
Wiki Patroller
"Shmaluigi"
Why does all the good stuff always happen when Shmaluigi is away??
...Anyway, it seems the classic "Godot Gambit" as Shmaluigi likes to call it is at play here. Here's a little trick Shmaluigi learned from Detective Fulbright in this situation... It's time to weigh these investigators against the scales of justice! Shmaluigi Court is now in session!
Shy Guy on Wheels
Pros
  • Presented evidence of suspicion of Mr. Lang prior to his death.​
  • Solid reasoning for his alleged motivations.​
  • Currently has a vote placed on Ms. Ushigome.​
Cons
  • Motivation for the initial claim is to save his own neck.​
  • Could also be a last-ditch wolf trick to either get the vigilante killed by the wolves or outright mislynch them.​
  • Has displayed suspicious behavior for the majority of the investigation.​
Rimi Ushigome
Pros
  • Motivation for the initial claim is a counterclaim. From firsthand experience, Shmaluigi can definitively say that the counterclaimer isn't always the innocent one, but her motivations appear more sheep-like than Mr. Shy Guy on Wheels'.
  • Solid reasoning for her alleged motivations.
  • Ms. Ushigome has had little to say throughout this investigation when she is not pressed for an explanation - why come out of nowhere and lie now?
  • Has flown mostly under the radar this whole time as we have all been focused on more suspicious targets for the most part. If she was a wolf, it would make more sense to maintain this position rather than to bring attention to herself with a false roleclaim.
Cons
  • No evidence of any prior suspicion of Mr. Lang.
  • No vote for Mr. Shy Guy on Wheels. If you're truly the vigilante, surely he is lying which would almost guarantee him being a wolf, would it not? Why not put your money where your mouth is?
  • Displayed some suspicious behavior for day 2 actions.
These are pretty close, Mr. Shy Guy on Wheels has evidence that would back up his choice, but Ms. Ushigome's intentions appear much more innocent. Based on this, Shmaluigi is leaning towards Ms. Ushigome being the true vigilante.

HOWEVER, with that being said, Shmaluigi thinks Ms. Fanta has provided us with a brilliant strategy here. If both of these so-called "vigilantes" are still alive by nightfall, then the real one will undoubtedly make a kill attempt on the false one. We do run the risk of the wolves killing the vigilante as well, however at this point the vigilante will no longer have access to their powers anyway, so it's not a huge loss. At worst, we eliminate a wolf and lose what is now essentially a vanilla sheep, at best we still eliminate a wolf and now have a confirmed innocent. Therefore, Shmaluigi strongly suggests that we do not vote for Mr. Shy Guy on Wheels or Ms. Ushigome today, and the doctor should not try to protect either of them.

Before Shmaluigi wraps this up, he would also like to address the ridiculous statement made by Mr. Matl-
Tbf to flotzo the best vig's hide in the shadows doing enough to keep suspicion away until it's time to land that shot
The fact that Flotzo wasn't making a lot of waves could have been a tactic to keep the mafia thinking they were nothing but an unimportant sheep not worth wasting a night kill on.
When in reality Flotzo was figuring out who the right target was.
Now granted a lot of this could also apply to Sgow
but it's just food for thought.
...MR. MATLOCK MADE A COHERENT AND LOGICAL ARGUMENT?!?

...

Was the incident that must not be named a sign of the impending apocalypse??

View attachment 11365: Good morning, all members of the newly-formed Joja Investigative Team. Yes, that's correct. My request to corporate has finally been approved. You're all on our official payroll now that your training period has ended.
Ooh, Shmaluigi gets money!
 

Glitz Yoshi

I'm Yoshi the Space Station Manager from the wiki.
Rimi Ushigome
Pros
  • Has flown mostly under the radar this whole time as we have all been focused on more suspicious targets for the most part. If she was a wolf, it would make more sense to maintain this position rather than to bring attention to herself with a false roleclaim.
Glitz Yoshi (White).png
: "Yeah. Very risky. Like on Night 1, I did something in which I saved it because I wanted to use it but ended up not, I wrote this for the Kong: "His vote on me seems like he is the enemy. And there is more evidence to be." and this for Rimi: "About them there is nothing to bleep. But I think they are a sheep." Also, no one really knew about this except me. Also, I see people attacking both thanks to the chart Lakituthequick made, which I will be referencing. I mean, on night 2, the people with sus on both were Morris and Lakituthequick, the people with sus on Rimi and noted on SGOW were Diesel and Mr. B, and the person with noted on Rimi and sus on SGOW was Waluigi Time. Also, Zote was suspicious towards Rimi, but defended SGOW. But I am not going to hear that "Oh, I couldn't be mafia because I would want to keep him" again. We know that GBAToad used it and was indeed mafia. Also, while Zote was indeed innocent, he seems to have placed sus on Alex, as well. Not to mention, he voted for me. Looking at his sus list...


PRESENTING THE SUS LIST

View attachment 10871

still deciding on where to place my final vote. yoshi SSM is claiming inno, but lynching him and confirming his alignment might prove beneficial to retrospective analysis anyway

still got a few hours left. i'll make my call then
Seems like 2s then 1s for most with two 3s being Alex95 and Pitohui. The judge, on the other hand...
Seems more useful as an innocent analysis."
 

Matlock

That's what I call hamburgers
Retired Wiki Staff
Former 'Shroom Staff
Before Shmaluigi wraps this up, he would also like to address the ridiculous statement made by Mr. Matl-

...MR. MATLOCK MADE A COHERENT AND LOGICAL ARGUMENT?!?

...

Was the incident that must not be named a sign of the impending apocalypse??
I mean I am a successful defense attorney with a show that lasted 9 seasons.
 

Insane Shmathers

I'm not InsaneBlathers, what are you talking about
Tbh I don't have enough patience to fully read the brick wall you guys have made up there but I looked at most of it and for now, at least, I agree with Shmaluigi's suggestion that we should refrain from voting either of the two. They both have equally good arguments for and against them, and there's no clear winner out of them.
However, this is starting to make me a bit suspicious towards Shmaluigi. A claim someone (iirc the Judge) made was that he wasn't really taking any sides and mostly voted for semi-sus people, and at first I didn't believe this. But now... My eyebrow's starting to raise. Something's starting to seem off about him, as admirable a detective he seems to be.
 

Charlie Brown

y is loogi sadd?? plese halp himn
Poll Committee
Tbh I don't have enough patience to fully read the brick wall you guys have made up there but I looked at most of it and for now, at least, I agree with Shmaluigi's suggestion that we should refrain from voting either of the two. They both have equally good arguments for and against them, and there's no clear winner out of them.
However, this is starting to make me a bit suspicious towards Shmaluigi. A claim someone (iirc the Judge) made was that he wasn't really taking any sides and mostly voted for semi-sus people, and at first I didn't believe this. But now... My eyebrow's starting to raise. Something's starting to seem off about him, as admirable a detective he seems to be.

Rosa: Hey, I'm back! Those roses smelled great! Anyway, in all fairness to Mr. Detective Shmaluigi, the suggestion of not voting for either of the two was not originally his suggestion. Ms. Fanta was the first to say so, and several people including myself have agreed with her. This doesn't change anything the judge said about him, but given how popular the suggestion is it's not unreasonable for him to agree with it. Still, if you think there's strangeness in his behavior, keep on looking into it! No one is exempt from the Miracle Eye of the town! (OOC: yes, I had to look up eye-related Pokemon moves)
 

Hooded Pitohui

The Bird with Batrachotoxin!
Core 'Shroom Staff
Awards Committee
Poll Committee
Morris_Annoyed.png
: I'm still not convinced that there's not something unusual about Mr. Kong's roleclaim. No matter how I look at it, it doesn't add up to anything done for the good of the innocents among our number. But... what I said at the start of this day still remains true. To try and hunt down the vigilante any longer is not, at the moment, a beneficial use of our time. Ms. Fantanoice has a reasonable proposal on the table.



Morris_Annoyed.png
: I've had reservations about him for multiple days, and Ms. Fantanoice appears to feel the same way. I will unvote and Vote: Señor Oveja, and we will see what happens.
 
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