Chat Party - IRC Options

Anton

kero?
Chat Administrator
Core 'Shroom Staff
Awards Committee
Pronouns
He/him
During out 2nd meeting we brought up the question of where to hold the Chat Party that goes on the day of the Ceremony. The decision seemed unanimous among the AC members present to keep it on IRC, but with an effort to diversify IRC clients and make information more readily available should anyone be unfamiliar with the process, one client bug out, or just prefer something else.

Here's my usual spiel that I plop in every relevant location thus far:
To access it, just join the server 'irc.darkmyst.org' in any irc client and join #mwikiawards. You can also join it by using the wiki's WebChat applet and typing "/join #mwikiawards" after you get in, or just simply click this direct mibbit link!
This covers Mibbit pretty adequately, as well as incredibly simply as a single link to the direct channel is provided with no other need for further information.

KiwiIRC also has the ability to provide a direct link, as seen here: https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/irc.darkmyst.org/#mwikiawards . I am personally unfamiliar with Kiwi so if anyone has any more information that could be useful please share, as with any other clients or options you would recommend.


I intend on generating a list of available options to put out in the General Discussion thread or elsewhere a bit before the ceremony so people can become acclimated to an option of their choosing.

logs

[9:41:20 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> the day before the ceremony last year it was suggested to make the chat party on discord instead of irc
[9:41:35 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> this was not something I was going to allow happen because it was literally under 24 hours until the ceremony
[9:41:49 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> and I was NOT going to deal with all of the shit involved in doing that at that point in time
[9:41:51 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> so, we're here now
[9:42:14 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> discussion can be found in this thread here, linking specifically to porple's post that had a tangible idea
[9:42:15 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> https://www.marioboards.com/threads/40779/#post-2093275
[9:42:31 PM] <mfan168> of *course* it was porple
[9:42:33 PM] <Honoka_Chaosaka> my view on this remains the same as it does last year; if irc fucks up during the ceremony it only really affects a small portion of people (see: netsplits, or one entrance failing)
[9:42:38 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> I have My Opinions on this but I just want to introduce the concept to the Awards Committee here first to see what thoughts are
[9:42:58 PM] <Honoka_Chaosaka> if /discord/ fucks up, the entire server goes out for an unknown period of time, which tanks ALL discussion
[9:43:04 PM] <Honoka_Chaosaka> i'd rather take the one with less overall risk
[9:43:24 PM] <@Lakituthequick> is irc not equally likely to fuck up
[9:43:26 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> we don't need to come to a decision tonight, but this is just to at least introduce it
[9:43:35 PM] <Honoka_Chaosaka> i'm not saying it isn't
[9:43:40 PM] <Honoka_Chaosaka> i'm saying that if irc fucks up it affects a smaller portion
[9:43:46 PM] <Honoka_Chaosaka> rather than knocking the entire chat party offline
[9:43:53 PM] <+Smasher> itd be easier for me if it were on discord but shrug
[9:43:59 PM] <+Smasher> ill still join if its on irc
[9:44:07 PM] <mfan168> discord rarely fucks up for me so
[9:44:24 PM] <mfan168> this is more of a worst case scenario you're talking about, perch
[9:44:26 PM] <@Lakituthequick> 03:42:31 <mfan168> of *course* it was porple -- he wasn't the source of the suggestion, he just offered a possible solution
[9:44:31 PM] <Honoka_Chaosaka> ...and?
[9:44:50 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> for people who aren't fully aware
[9:44:51 PM] <Hooded_Pitohui> I mean, it'd also be easier for me if it were on Discord, but I have no problems getting into IRC for it, and I think, on the whole, the IRC chat tends to have more people who are actually interested in the proceedings
[9:44:53 PM] <Honoka_Chaosaka> i've seen these worst case scenarios happen and they have no respect to time
[9:44:54 PM] <mfan168> regardless, i find discord more comfortable to use than irc
[9:44:55 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> the chat party is just the like
[9:45:11 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> get-together of everyone talking about the award results in realtime as the ceremony goes on
[9:45:11 PM] <Honoka_Chaosaka> fond memories of the time discord went down for five hours in the middle of the day
[9:45:24 PM] <Zange> i say the following purely with what's likely in store for me in mind but tldr i'm leaning towards discord
[9:45:26 PM] <Hooded_Pitohui> Where I think the Discord would have a good number of people dip in for a moment and have no interest and go to other channels
[9:45:27 PM] <+Rose> My preference defers to irc currently, and it's because of the argument with the Discord crashing but also because it feels so much more personal to have everybody in irc together. Sure, there's more people on Discord, but 90% of the server likely isn't going to participate or care
[9:45:28 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> it's also where we as hosts can tag people who are coming up on their presentation time
[9:45:37 PM] <Hooded_Pitohui> Per Rose
[9:45:38 PM] <@turb> i maintain that it would be easier to moderate and keep the auxiliary function of the chat party, which to me is scheduling upcoming awards in the topic, on irc
[9:45:40 PM] <@turb> yeah
[9:45:59 PM] <@turb> it's difficult to do so on discord without the usage of external bots that announce topic changes and etc etc
[9:46:04 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> the integral part of the ceremony is on the forum
[9:46:13 PM] <Honoka_Chaosaka> rose sums up the other point i wanted to make, which is that i don't think people in the discord who are not engaged with awards otherwise (forums, for example) would care
[9:46:20 PM] <+Rose> When you see all of these different members joining the channel it makes you go "here's all the people that are really interested and passionate for this event"
[9:46:20 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> having the formal chat party in one place does not prevent people from getting together and talking about the results in the other
[9:46:21 PM] <@turb> I am willing to learn that this year as it's being discussed well in advance instead of a day before the ceremony
[9:46:29 PM] <Honoka_Chaosaka> so i don't think the argument about "this'll get so many new eyeballs!" holds water
[9:46:37 PM] <@Lakituthequick> it's true that darkmyst has its load balancing in order, should australia derp up, europe and the americas can still talk
[9:46:37 PM] <Honoka_Chaosaka> and yeah, it's not like we'd ban discord discussion of awards
[9:46:50 PM] <Honoka_Chaosaka> it's just "which one has the scheduling going on"
[9:46:54 PM] <Zange> last year during the chat party and ceremony i was out of the house for like the first hour and a half and couldnt keep up with things as much as i'd have liked to due to only having my phone
[9:46:55 PM] <@turb> the awards had essentially 0 people mention them on discord last year fwiw
[9:47:05 PM] <@turb> and I'm not going to call that a nail in the coffin as the chat party was indeed on irc
[9:47:11 PM] <@turb> and the main event was on the forums
[9:47:17 PM] <Hooded_Pitohui> I definitely think it would good for there to be some option and way for people on Discord to keep up with and engage the ceremony, like, if someone is more comfortable using it, it'd be /nice/ if there were some way to ping them for presentations there or something
[9:47:26 PM] <Hooded_Pitohui> But not at the expense of the irc chat party
[9:47:27 PM] <Zange> depending on college things that may be the case again this year so discord would be easier for me if that happens
[9:47:27 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> it's not like I didn't spam the absolute fuck out of discord with awards stuff, either
[9:47:29 PM] <@turb> but there wasn't a storm of new people attempting to create discussion about them there separately from us
[9:47:31 PM] <@turb> yeah
[9:47:40 PM] <@turb> like they weren't brushed aside in favor of irc completely
[9:47:40 PM] <Zange> im fine with irc of course
[9:47:41 PM] <+Rose> You can get an irc client for your phone
[9:47:50 PM] <@turb> awards were still spammed like mad and advertised
[9:47:54 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> porple's solution to a discord party resolves the issue of maintaining logs
[9:48:00 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> it's a valid solution
[9:48:08 PM] <Zange> counterpoint: my phone has awful storage and discord is already on there
[9:48:14 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> my concern is is it a necessary fix
[9:48:34 PM] <@turb> androirc only takes up about 11 mb for me
[9:48:40 PM] <Zange> irc is fine, it's just more of a hassle if i'm out of the house
[9:48:44 PM] <@turb> compared to discord's 200
[9:48:48 PM] <@turb> i actually had no idea it was 200 before now
[9:48:50 PM] <@turb> worry
[9:48:51 PM] <mfan168> countercounterpoint: you don't need to use an irc app, use irc on mariowiki ;^)
[9:48:51 PM] <Zange> (which im doing everything in my power to have that Not happen)
[9:48:53 PM] <+Rose> Personally I don't think there's any necessity to transfer the main celebration to Discord, and people can always talk about it in Discord anyway
[9:48:57 PM] <mfan168> *:^)
[9:48:58 PM] <@Lakituthequick> i guess discord is more convenient while irc is cosier and more focussed
[9:48:59 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> (also for people reading logs who want discord as the place, I did announce that anyone can join the committee and that this would be one of the only focus topics of the year aside from awards)
[9:49:02 PM] <mfan168> not that it matters that much
[9:49:52 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> to alleviate any concerns about irc, as there was the world's worst timing of a mibbit outage
[9:50:01 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> I will make serious attempts to diversify the clients
[9:50:09 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> mibbit was just easier because I can make a direct url link
[9:50:13 PM] <Zange> i will say if discord is the route we end up going i really liked porple's idea
[9:50:19 PM] <Hooded_Pitohui> As platforms go, they have their different conveniences based on preference and individual situations, so much of my reasoning is based on what Rose and Perch already said
[9:50:24 PM] <+Rose> Why is there an argument of convenience for Discord when all you need to do is go to an irc client and type in a few words? If you don't want to download a client then just go to the MarioWiki link and that should be fine
[9:50:34 PM] <+Rose> I know more people have Siscordy
[9:50:37 PM] <+Rose> *Discord wew
[9:50:44 PM] <+Rose> But it isn't that hard to join an irc channel
[9:50:46 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> discord bimbofication
[9:50:54 PM] <@Lakituthequick> true, discord requires one to have an account, irc doesn't
[9:51:16 PM] <Hooded_Pitohui> I would definitely appreciate more advertising of these different IRC cliences and how IRC works in general, speaking as someone who knows next to nothing about IRC other than its use for Awards
[9:51:29 PM] <@Lakituthequick> both work in a browser though, no need to download anything if you just want to watch
[9:51:40 PM] <Lord_Bowser> id like to suggest irccloud as a promising mobile client
[9:52:03 PM] <Hooded_Pitohui> *clients, not cliences
[9:52:05 PM] <Zange> the thing with irc on a phone where youre not using a client (like i havent been), it has a tendency to be very finnicky
[9:52:17 PM] <Lord_Bowser> its much more resistant to disconnects than a typical client (i.e. you can freely switch between wifi and mobile data without losing connection)
[9:52:19 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> if anyone has more detailed information on clients they'd suggest, feel free to dump it in the staff board because I'm pretty much only familiar with mibbit and mirc
[9:52:26 PM] <@Lakituthequick> (irccloud is something like a proxy, they connect to irc for you and you connect to them, without having to worry about your own connection)
[9:52:29 PM] <Lord_Bowser> and it has good backlogging
[9:52:30 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> there's absolutely plenty of time to research this and dispense information, as well
[9:52:34 PM] <Honoka_Chaosaka> that's why i think if we go with irc this year we should try and give people more information
[9:52:40 PM] <Honoka_Chaosaka> and suggested connection methods
[9:52:46 PM] <+Rose> I think if we advertise or explain "hey here's what you can use to access irc" a few weeks before and people have time to get it prepared
[9:52:49 PM] <+Rose> Then we're set
[9:52:51 PM] <Zange> like i cant even remember the amount of times that i left the chrome app for two minutes while i was on irc and when i went back in it refreshed me
[9:52:58 PM] <+Smasher> i do have ircloud and i would recommend it
[9:53:02 PM] <Lord_Bowser> irccloud wont do that zange
[9:53:09 PM] <Zange> maybe this'll be the thing that actually gets me to install a client on my phone who knows
[9:53:14 PM] <Lord_Bowser> i would highly recommend it if youre having connection problems
[9:53:22 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> access information via mibbit to this channel is pretty much available year-round as it's where we host meetings
[9:53:23 PM] <+Rose> The mibbit client on browser is like that because it's on browser
[9:53:24 PM] <Zange> because the first time i tried to use one i couldnt figure it out for the life of me
[9:53:28 PM] <+Rose> A downloaded client won't do that
[9:53:33 PM] <Zange> and i dont even remember which one it was
[9:53:34 PM] <Hooded_Pitohui> Rose and Perch are stealing my words so I'm going to let them keep talking for me
[9:53:39 PM] <Lord_Bowser> its downside is that itll autokick you if youre inactive for more than 2 hours, but that shouldnt really be that big a problem honestly
[9:53:41 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> I post it everywhere that I advertise meetings
[9:54:41 PM] <Lord_Bowser> theres a paid sub thing but absolutely none of its features are necessary for just here
[9:54:46 PM] <+Rose> I think that there's a perception that it's still just for Awards Committee business, even if you say otherwise, and people don't understand that mibbit isn't the only option
[9:54:47 PM] <Lord_Bowser> so dont even bother with that lol
[9:55:02 PM] <+Rose> So I think a quick message of "here's some other clients to check out before the ceremony starts!"
[9:55:06 PM] <+Rose> Would be perfectly enough
[9:55:51 PM] <+Rose> My impression is that people prefer Discord because they find the irc client linked on MarioWiki specifically to be bothersome
[9:56:03 PM] <Hooded_Pitohui> Yeah, until YFJ said something last week, I had no idea you can use IRC any other way than through the Wiki link
[9:56:04 PM] <+Rose> So if they were made consciously aware of other options that'd remedy that issue
[9:56:25 PM] <Zange> how do you even use a client, anyways?
[9:56:28 PM] <Zange> serious question
[9:56:31 PM] <+Rose> You download it and that's it
[9:56:32 PM] <@Lakituthequick> potentially good starting point for suggestions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Internet_Relay_Chat_clients
[9:56:40 PM] <Zange> (specifically a mobile one)
[9:56:43 PM] <Honoka_Chaosaka> you download a program, then input the sp- oh
[9:56:45 PM] <Lord_Bowser> youll need to connect to irc.darkmyst.org
[9:56:45 PM] <+Rose> It's an app
[9:56:46 PM] <Honoka_Chaosaka> mobile, i dunno
[9:56:55 PM] <Lord_Bowser> what client are you using zange
[9:57:09 PM] <@turb> /connect irc.darkmyst.org
[9:57:16 PM] <@turb> then /j #mwikiawards
[9:57:20 PM] <Zange> i dont even know which one i had on my phone when i tried to use one the first time, it was well over a year ago
[9:57:31 PM] <Zange> like i could not figure out how to connect to a server
[9:57:40 PM] <+Rose> Well that's how ^
[9:57:42 PM] <@Lakituthequick> worth noting: commands may differ between client
[9:57:48 PM] <GBAToad> the one thing horrifying about irccloud is having to look at lbs avatar
[9:57:59 PM] <Lord_Bowser> just disable avatars lul
[9:58:00 PM] <@Lakituthequick> irccloud has avatars?
[9:58:07 PM] <@Lakituthequick> that's not even an irc thing
[9:58:11 PM] <@turb> /j is shorthand so if that doesn't work /join usually does
[9:58:17 PM] <Zange> i will probably end up hunting someone down for help later once i actually figure out which one to put on my phone
[9:58:23 PM] <Lord_Bowser> yeah but you can hide them easily
[9:58:28 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> "Initial release November 2007"
[9:58:29 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> god
[9:58:39 PM] <+Rose> For reiteration one more time before the meeting ends, I'm in the camp of Stick With IRC
[9:58:41 PM] <@turb> i wonder if kiwiirc still exists
[9:58:42 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> i've been using mibbit since it was conceived
[9:58:48 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> I didn't realize it wasn't older
[9:59:04 PM] <Hooded_Pitohui> Relevant mood https://xkcd.com/1782/
[9:59:14 PM] <Hooded_Pitohui> But, yeah, I'm with Rose on stick with IRC for now
[9:59:35 PM] <Lord_Bowser> also ill mention that not only are irc netsplits less serious than discord outages, theyre also generally rarer
[9:59:41 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> dating neu is why I stuck to irc
[9:59:47 PM] <@Lakituthequick> theres always a good xkcd
[9:59:51 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> boy couldn't keep his hands on a single chat service for more than a month
[9:59:53 PM] <Lord_Bowser> the one that happened last year(?) was just extremely unfortunate timing
[9:59:54 PM] kiwi_77 has joined #mwikiawards
[10:00:04 PM] <@turb> it's still around and doesn't mask your host name anymore
[10:00:08 PM] <@turb> and you can get direct links from it
[10:00:10 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> 👏
[10:00:14 PM] <Lord_Bowser> there hadnt been one for a while beforehand iirc
[10:00:17 PM] <kiwi_77> https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/irc.darkmyst.org/#mwikiawards
[10:00:22 PM] <@turb> this would be a good mibbit alternative
[10:00:29 PM] kiwi_77 has left (Client Quit)
[10:00:40 PM] anton has joined #mwikiawards
[10:00:44 PM] <anton> i'm gay
[10:00:57 PM] <+Smasher> relatable
[10:01:06 PM] anton has left (Client Quit)
[10:01:06 PM] mfan168 has left (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[10:01:14 PM] <Zange> relatable x2
[10:01:26 PM] <+Rose> relatable x0.5
[10:01:33 PM] <@Lakituthequick> so...
[10:01:36 PM] <GBAToad> good comic
[10:02:19 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> so from the vibe I'm getting, majority ac opinion is stick with irc for the chat party, but take better care to diversify clients and dispense information on how to use them
[10:02:32 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> this stance is fluid, but it's what I'm going to work with until the tides change
[10:02:34 PM] <@Lakituthequick> pretty much
[10:02:47 PM] <Hooded_Pitohui> That's my opinion on the matter
[10:02:53 PM] <+Smasher> fair enough
[10:03:10 PM] <Honoka_Chaosaka> that's my view, yeah
[10:03:20 PM] <@Anton{Politoed}> and with that, the meeting is over!
[10:03:25 PM] <Honoka_Chaosaka> stick with irc, but make irc feel more avaliable and accessible to newcomers
 
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