Suggestions for next year

Anton

kero?
Chat Administrator
Core 'Shroom Staff
Awards Committee
In a continuous effort to improve, please tell us things that could be changed, or new ideas, new awards, nominees, what worked, what didn't work, anything, we will look over everything posted in here.



I'll start:

*Fix poll sorter so "Game" isn't used in every table for things that aren't games; Nominee? Entry?
*M8 Retro/Modern 2D Promotional Artwork style?
*Switch F11 Biggest Missed Opportunity into something like Biggest Disappointment so the write-ins can be more open and valid, or just remove it entirely?
*Change up F9 Worst Direction of Series because it's becoming too nuanced for an award that forces generalization?
*Merge Tanooki Suit and Super Leaf (3D games)?
*M10 Favorite Song - Allow instrumental songs? Clarify name? New award to replace Sound Design?

Also general reminder to everyone that while we do our best to prevent it, typos and mistakes happen. I like to look at how we've moved from having errors such as how entire results would be incorrect in the results list, numbers wouldn't add up, things in the wrong place, duplicate entries that weren't merged, things that don't exist, etc., and instead have moved to maybe a grand total of 3 typos that were just one missing letter or something not capitalized when it should be or vice versa. There's not really much that can be done to prevent human error beyond evolving to mechanisms immune to fatigue, so let's keep it focused on things we can change. :)
 

Uniju

Hazukashii serifu kinshi
*Stop voting for Hammer Bros.
 

Hilda Valentine Goneril

#1 Fashionista
Retired Wiki Staff
some sort of better way to manage time

i think set a minimum of 5 minutes per presentation, but then if you have a long one then set the time to view the presentation for like 10 min

or if its like a really long script reserve some extra time, im not sure how to actually gauge it but there needs to be something done with timing imo

with userpedia and shroom merged into one i think this should be ok, we usually end awards later than this anyway

nonetheless i think it was a great ceremony as always
 

Hibiki Tachibana

Gekisou Gungnir
Forum Moderator
Chat Operator
Core 'Shroom Staff
Awards Committee
Poll Committee
*M10 Favorite Song - Allow instrumental songs? Clarify name? New award to replace Sound Design?
To add to the pile of suggestions - I'm not really sure about comparing vocal songs and instrumentals in the same award, so perhaps split it off and make Favorite Instrumental Track its own award, while clarifying the original M10 into Favorite Vocal Song? not sure if this would co-exist alongside M1 (specific pieces vs. overall game) or replace it
 

Bernadetta von Varley

Bluebird; Even If Happiness Is Close By...
I definitely agree the timing could probably be better. At least make the intermissions longer.

Like I said on irc I think it might be good at this point to separate, say, Classic 2D and Classic 3D categories instead of having everything from the NES to the Gamecube be under "classic" but that's partly for non-objective reasons.
 

Anton

kero?
Chat Administrator
Core 'Shroom Staff
Awards Committee
Chiaki Oogaki said:
some sort of better way to manage time

i think set a minimum of 5 minutes per presentation, but then if you have a long one then set the time to view the presentation for like 10 min

or if its like a really long script reserve some extra time, im not sure how to actually gauge it but there needs to be something done with timing imo

with userpedia and shroom merged into one i think this should be ok, we usually end awards later than this anyway

nonetheless i think it was a great ceremony as always
I'm not too keen on having customized presentation slot times, especially since we have things like people sending in their presentations the day before so there's absolutely no way to predict how much time will be needed. An option we can take is start everything an hour before and then divvy up that 60 minutes between each of the ceremonies for longer break times for people to catch up.
 

Hilda Valentine Goneril

#1 Fashionista
Retired Wiki Staff
Anton said:
Chiaki Oogaki said:
some sort of better way to manage time

i think set a minimum of 5 minutes per presentation, but then if you have a long one then set the time to view the presentation for like 10 min

or if its like a really long script reserve some extra time, im not sure how to actually gauge it but there needs to be something done with timing imo

with userpedia and shroom merged into one i think this should be ok, we usually end awards later than this anyway

nonetheless i think it was a great ceremony as always
I'm not too keen on having customized presentation slot times, especially since we have things like people sending in their presentations the day before so there's absolutely no way to predict how much time will be needed. An option we can take is start everything an hour before and then divvy up that 60 minutes between each of the ceremonies for longer break times for people to catch up.
yea i understand that, like we sent ours in yesterday too so how would you know how much time people need in only the span of less than 12 hours before the ceremony begins

and also people making their presentations dont take time into account obviously (which is good, they shouldnt. i dont anyway), they just want to make a really nice presentation.

i like the idea of starting an hour early though and having time for people to catch up
 

Meta Knight

Victory is my destiny
Core 'Shroom Staff
Awards Committee
I think that overall activity has been kind of low this year, and while I might be guilty to some of it, I have noticed things such as tournaments having fewer sign-ups, etc. It reflects in that there were 20 blank spots in presentations that needed to be filled up by the backup presenters. I'm not sure what the solution is to that though other than possibly cutting awards or doing something to try to spark interest. I also think that we should cut awards/replace awards that are too boring/are the same every year (like Major Character). My only other specific thought is that C14 and C15 are too similar to each other in my opinion and should be merged, or the distinction between the two needs to be made more clear.
 

Dr. Mario

Mushroom Kingdom's OG Woo Meister
I'm okay with the shorter intermissions. While the short time might be bad for the at-the moment comments, the nature of the board makes it so you can always go back and reread what's there. I do suppose we should have more of a dedicated medium for comments on the presentations, as the presentation leaves little time for discussion, if people want to engage there. IRC can be there for at the moment reactions, but I don't think we keep logs on it, but maybe we should. Same with Discord.

I do think some awards need to be tailored for less predictable results. It's my only first time here, but I noticed there are similar results that get discussed more than a few times that simply reiterate the past presentation (I'm looking at you, Sticker Star, which has been discussed, like, three times). It might be fine over one ceremony, but I can imagine that over several years, it gets tiresome. And the point of these polls is perhaps a surprise, so it's no fun if you already know what the results are... three times.

That being said, doing my part was fun I'm interested in doing more in the future.
 

Dr. Baby Luigi

Mushroom Kingdom's Most Adorable Doctor
I'm wondering if it's technically possible for this forum to come with its own uploader specifically for this event, so in the future, we won't have anything to worry about in case the image host fucks around like what ImageShack did for the older presentations.
 

Dr. Mario

Mushroom Kingdom's OG Woo Meister
At the very, very least, there needs to be some who stores all the images, someone we can trust, like SuperChao who always reminds us how OG he is. Perhaps upload the images on MarioWiki and tuck it away safely. You'll never know when Imgur decides to be like Imageshit.
 

Dr. Mario

Mushroom Kingdom's OG Woo Meister
Should we consider opening temporary Discord channels for the awards? Or is that too convoluted? Maybe it's just on me, as I wasn't in the irc.
 

Dr. Baby Luigi

Mushroom Kingdom's Most Adorable Doctor
Well we have an awards channel that's never been used in Discord. We hold all awards meetings at IRC. I think that's how it'll remain for the chat party too.
 

Hibiki Tachibana

Gekisou Gungnir
Forum Moderator
Chat Operator
Core 'Shroom Staff
Awards Committee
Poll Committee
Princess Mario said:
Should we consider opening temporary Discord channels for the awards? Or is that too convoluted? Maybe it's just on me, as I wasn't in the irc.
It feels unnecessary, honestly. We already have an IRC channel that contains all discussion if people wanna jump in; splitting it across multiple channels feels like all it would do is weaken each of them by diverting focus as everyone picks one or the other.
 

Anton

kero?
Chat Administrator
Core 'Shroom Staff
Awards Committee
Meta Knight said:
I think that overall activity has been kind of low this year, and while I might be guilty to some of it, I have noticed things such as tournaments having fewer sign-ups, etc. It reflects in that there were 20 blank spots in presentations that needed to be filled up by the backup presenters. I'm not sure what the solution is to that though other than possibly cutting awards or doing something to try to spark interest. I also think that we should cut awards/replace awards that are too boring/are the same every year (like Major Character). My only other specific thought is that C14 and C15 are too similar to each other in my opinion and should be merged, or the distinction between the two needs to be made more clear.
It's not possible to pinpoint one factor that's guilty, but I did notice a trend in people who used to grab 2, 3, 4 presentations now only picking one, or people pairing up more, which may be a result of people thinking they need to create Rembrandts and Van Goghs to be worthwhile, leading them to devote all their time to a single presentation or just give up doing them at all. Even tonight I'm seeing a good amount of people wish that they would've signed up for some, or forgot, etc., which I'll be super extra sure to remind them of their wish next year when sign-ups roll around again :bowser: . Cutting awards is definitely an option, but I'd like to address other factors as well first.

Princess Mario said:
Should we consider opening temporary Discord channels for the awards? Or is that too convoluted? Maybe it's just on me, as I wasn't in the irc.
It's already a lot of work for 3-4 of us running the scripts, the multiple forum threads, the chatroom, and other assorted details; I'd rather not create a whole other venue to then copy/paste the same information into when they could all just join one single place.

Lots of posts are being made so I'll just post this now so I can finish it and then respond to new stuff.
 

Dr. Mario

Mushroom Kingdom's OG Woo Meister
All right. One more question, though, does IRC get more activity than the Discord? Is there a lot of people in the IRC, especially the presenters?
 

Dr. Baby Luigi

Mushroom Kingdom's Most Adorable Doctor
IRC got plenty of activity. Just read the logs!
 

Dr. Mario

Mushroom Kingdom's OG Woo Meister
Damn I'm stupid.

Well, I do hope my other suggestions/concerns get addressed.
 

Anton

kero?
Chat Administrator
Core 'Shroom Staff
Awards Committee
Princess Mario said:
I'm okay with the shorter intermissions. While the short time might be bad for the at-the moment comments, the nature of the board makes it so you can always go back and reread what's there. I do suppose we should have more of a dedicated medium for comments on the presentations, as the presentation leaves little time for discussion, if people want to engage there. IRC can be there for at the moment reactions, but I don't think we keep logs on it, but maybe we should. Same with Discord.

I do think some awards need to be tailored for less predictable results. It's my only first time here, but I noticed there are similar results that get discussed more than a few times that simply reiterate the past presentation (I'm looking at you, Sticker Star, which has been discussed, like, three times). It might be fine over one ceremony, but I can imagine that over several years, it gets tiresome. And the point of these polls is perhaps a surprise, so it's no fun if you already know what the results are... three times.

That being said, doing my part was fun I'm interested in doing more in the future.
I think some stuff was already addressed so I'll pass on those.

I think what people wanted were longer intermissions so they have a chance to catch up while things are going on. I do agree that the beauty of the forum is that people can come back to them later, but a lot of people enjoy being in it at the moment, and falling behind might not be too fun. Giving each presentation a longer time slot on an individual level would drag the ceremony out for much longer than I care to sit through, as I'm sure other people who have to do behind-the-scenes work can agree with. Bumping the intermissions from 15 minutes to like 20 or 25 would only eat 30 minutes or so of extra time, which can be dipped into the usual hour of the chat party, since the chat thing is generally on-going a little before its scheduled time up and throughout the ceremonies and past their end. I do see value in giving people time to respond to presentations as that's what a lot of people (myself included) look forward to, but taking a 5 minute presentation slot to a 10 doubles the entire ceremony from 7 to 14 hours just by that alone, so longer intermissions to act as a catch-up and cooldown time I feel would work best. Ultimately, if we end up cutting some presentations, that would also open up more time.

As for predictable awards, I've been trying to crack down on that, starting heavily last year, and this year more so. Some of them are difficult to remove or adjust, though, such as Favorite Major Character which is pretty much a staple. During the AC meeting cycle I tend to view back on the historical results documents and try to pick out ones that have had the same results for years--GTR even helps with this by seeing how many awards a bunch of people are able to get a trifecta for! These stagnant awards are usually the ones on the chopping block should a new award idea come by, as it did this year with Favorite Capture, Costume, and Song. Usually we only swap them out if a strong idea comes forth and is fleshed out for a new award, but if there's enough of them next year or beyond, in the spirit of condensing the workload they may just be flat up for removal. We ended up 'removing' Favorite DK and Wario Character, and turning M5-7 into rotating awards representing DK, Wario, and Yoshi since Favorite DK, Wario, and Yoshi Game were kinda stagnant as well, but we couldn't exactly completely vacate those representatives. Snack did bring up a few posts above about separating the Classic Game award into 2D and 3D, which may be worth looking into. Once Turb and I get around to filling out the Historical Results for this year and scoring GTR we'll have a better visual of what's static, but preliminary suggestions are welcome.

And finally, I hope to see you, and everyone else, more in the future. I'm glad everyone had fun!
 

Anton

kero?
Chat Administrator
Core 'Shroom Staff
Awards Committee
Anton said:
Meta Knight said:
I think that overall activity has been kind of low this year, and while I might be guilty to some of it, I have noticed things such as tournaments having fewer sign-ups, etc. It reflects in that there were 20 blank spots in presentations that needed to be filled up by the backup presenters. I'm not sure what the solution is to that though other than possibly cutting awards or doing something to try to spark interest. I also think that we should cut awards/replace awards that are too boring/are the same every year (like Major Character). My only other specific thought is that C14 and C15 are too similar to each other in my opinion and should be merged, or the distinction between the two needs to be made more clear.
It's not possible to pinpoint one factor that's guilty, but I did notice a trend in people who used to grab 2, 3, 4 presentations now only picking one, or people pairing up more, which may be a result of people thinking they need to create Rembrandts and Van Goghs to be worthwhile, leading them to devote all their time to a single presentation or just give up doing them at all. Even tonight I'm seeing a good amount of people wish that they would've signed up for some, or forgot, etc., which I'll be super extra sure to remind them of their wish next year when sign-ups roll around again :bowser: . Cutting awards is definitely an option, but I'd like to address other factors as well first.
Oh, I forgot to finish my other point too.

As for tournaments, I feel like changes in Steam really mucked up prizes, leaving them a difficult thing to keep full and funded, as well as maintain interest in. Prizes are enough of a motivation for people to play in tournaments, so I hope to address this somehow next year, perhaps by phasing out the token system entirely and just having each tournament hold its own prizes provided by the tournament host, awards staff, and generous donors :wario: . I've also seen plenty of people express interest in the games available, and say they want to play them, and enjoy having them there, but uhh...just.....not playing them, though. I don't really know how to fix this other than finally using Grimes as my mole into Elon Musk's SpaceX program to launch a satellite holding a mind control laser that uses advanced GPS technology to make people play my scavenger hunt.
 

Kazooie

Red-crested Breegull
Chat Administrator
Core 'Shroom Staff
Awards Committee
Retired Wiki Staff
Princess Mario said:
I do think some awards need to be tailored for less predictable results. It's my only first time here, but I noticed there are similar results that get discussed more than a few times that simply reiterate the past presentation (I'm looking at you, Sticker Star, which has been discussed, like, three times). It might be fine over one ceremony, but I can imagine that over several years, it gets tiresome. And the point of these polls is perhaps a surprise, so it's no fun if you already know what the results are... three times.
The committee actually already takes these things into account and attempts to make adjustments. The problem is that there is a limit to how much you can realistically do in certain cases.

Like, Sticker Star is just a really shitty game that rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. That's just a thing that's in the public mind, and people have a right to hold that opinion. If there is a venue that asks Mario fans for the most unpleasant Mario game they have played, Sticker Star is inevitably going to have a strong presence in the results. What can we realistically do about this? Have a "Worst Game Except Sticker Star" award? Drop the question entirely? I don't think either of these are meaningful courses of actions. Personally, I think observing the public opinion on certain Mario topics is one of the goals of the awards. "Sticker Star sucks" is a valid, if predictable reflection of that opinion. We shouldn't move to warp that reflection just because it's an enduring one.

"We should stop Sticker Star from winning this" should not be our goal. It will stop winning on its own once it loses presence in the public eye, and we will observe it as we have done before. Same goes for characters like Pink Gold Peach, and also our enduring winners, except replace all the negative adjectives with positive ones.
 

Nabber

Artisanal Cheese Taster
good job running it this year, i feel like the quality of the presentations and the handling of everything was really well done

i don't have strong feelings about this but perhaps hardest boss can be retired? i just feel like having two boss awards is kind of redundant, and being hard isn't inherently a good thing either
 

Marie

If you find any good Marie fanart, send it here!
Anton said:
Oh, I forgot to finish my other point too.

As for tournaments, I feel like changes in Steam really mucked up prizes, leaving them a difficult thing to keep full and funded, as well as maintain interest in. Prizes are enough of a motivation for people to play in tournaments, so I hope to address this somehow next year, perhaps by phasing out the token system entirely and just having each tournament hold its own prizes provided by the tournament host, awards staff, and generous donors :wario: . I've also seen plenty of people express interest in the games available, and say they want to play them, and enjoy having them there, but uhh...just.....not playing them, though. I don't really know how to fix this other than finally using Grimes as my mole into Elon Musk's SpaceX program to launch a satellite holding a mind control laser that uses advanced GPS technology to make people play my scavenger hunt.
I don't know how much this applies to others, but I mainly play in tournaments for their own sake rather than for the prizes. I personally think the prizes should focus on gift cards more than specific games if possible (assuming the token system stays). A lot of the specific game prizes don't interest me. If prizes are a bigger factor in playing tournaments for other people, not being interested in the prizes offered might be a deterrent to playing in them. Gift cards are more universally appealing.

I think M10 should be changed to Favorite Music Track. Having an award for Favorite Vocal Song seems unnecessary to me since vocal songs haven't been a big part of the Mario franchise. This would be different from M1 since that is for entire games while M10 would be for specific tracks.
 

Roserade

"Write your way into his heart..."
Core 'Shroom Staff
Awards Committee
Poll Committee
In regards to cutting awards due to presentation numbers, I don't know if this is entirely necessary, nor looking for a specific alternative. I think it all comes down to personal conflicts in the community. I definitely would've taken two more if I had the time, but I was without any electronics for a week so that wasn't feasible for me. But there are also a number of people that said they would try their hand at a presentation again next year, so it's not too much of a concern to me.

At the same time, I was not one of four that needed to cover twenty presentations total, so take my thoughts with a grain of salt and an outsider's perspective.
 
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