M28 Favorite Game Setting

Anton

kero?
Chat Administrator
Core 'Shroom Staff
Awards Committee
Pronouns
He/him
Current nominees said:
Favorite Game Setting (Mushroom Kingdom (SMB), Mushroom Kingdom (PM), Super Mario RPG World, Dinosaur Land, Yoshi's Island, Isle Delfino, Beanbean Kingdom, Rogueport & surrounding areas, Flipside & Flopside, Bowser's Castle, Sarasaland, Donkey Kong Island, Sprixie Kingdom, Comet Observatory & Galaxies, Pi'illo Island, Prism Island)
M28 - Favorite Game Setting - The game with the best setting overall. Focus is placed on the entirety of the setting as a whole, rather than just individual areas.
This thread is being made because it's a bit confusing/difficult figuring out how to add Super Mario Odyssey stuff to M28. To be consistent with nominees already in this award, the entire game should be added as one entity, but there's also a feeling that each Kingdom has a unique enough feel.

There's several ways we can approach this, including a complete rework, redefinition, rephrasing nominees, simply double checking if the nominees we have are all valid with the definition, or just doing nothing.

02:12:13: <Anton{Politoed}> 4M28 Favorite Game Setting (Mushroom Kingdom (Super Mario Bros.), Mushroom Kingdom (Paper Mario), Super Mario RPG World, Dinosaur Land, Yoshi's Island, Isle Delfino, Beanbean Kingdom, Rogueport & surrounding areas, Flipside & Flopside, Bowser's Castle, Sarasaland, Donkey Kong Island, Sprixie Kingdom, Comet Observatory & Galaxies, Pi'illo Island, Prism Island)
02:12:16: <Lakituthequick> 14) Sprixie Kingdom — 65 — 2.95%
02:12:18: <Lakituthequick> 15) Prism Island — 48 — 2.18%
02:12:19: <Lakituthequick> 16) Sarasaland — 37 — 1.68%
02:12:21: <Lakituthequick> 17) O. Peach's Castle — 9 — 0.41%
02:12:22: <Lakituthequick> 18) O. Diamond City — 7 — 0.32%
02:12:24: <Lakituthequick> 19) O. Mushroom Kingdom (M&L:BIS)) — 6 — 0.27%
02:12:27: <Lakituthequick> 20 is new donk city somewhy
02:12:47: <Meta_knight> 10itd be like "city" but the thing is there really isnt any other level like that
02:12:54: <Lakituthequick> my notes say "Add Cascade Kingdom" which is another SMO thing
02:13:15: <Shoey> i'm good with how this award is
02:13:31: <Anton{Politoed}> 4new donk city was included last year because there was more than enough previews of it to allow a decent opinion
02:13:56: <Anton{Politoed}> 4there's 16 right now and I'd like to see some SMO representation
02:14:04: <smasher> i would too
02:14:31: <Anton{Politoed}> 4so Cascade Kingdom
02:14:33: <Gamefreak75> can we encompass it all into one nomination?
02:14:39: <Stargazing> i'd support cascade kingdom
02:14:50: <Lakituthequick> SMO is probably too diverse to do a all-in thing
02:14:56: <Anton{Politoed}> 4yeah that was my thought
02:15:06: <Baby_Luigi> Cascade Kingdom is meh to me
02:15:07: <__2257> 7but the way the award is written now, the nominees are all something that was exactly the setting of an entire game
02:15:10: <Anton{Politoed}> 4and it also introduces things like "Bowser's Castle"
02:15:12: <smasher> one nom would be good if it was possible but yeah i dont think it would work
02:15:13: <Gamefreak75> galaxies are in there too
02:15:20: <McD> yeah galaxy only has one nom
02:15:22: <Anton{Politoed}> 4and SMO's bowser's castle is wildly different
02:15:32: <__2257> 7so for consistency, it should be the entire world
02:15:36: <Gamefreak75> same with pm and pm2
02:15:42: <Meta_knight> 10the best way i can encompass everything is something like "The whole planet SMO"
02:15:44: <smasher> ok 22 does have a point
02:15:45: <Meta_knight> 10or something
02:16:07: <Lakituthequick> well on 22's point, most nominated games are indeed very coherent
02:16:14: <Turb> yeah idk if this needs to be discussed more on the forums later if the entire world is a big point of contention
02:16:14: <Lakituthequick> SMO is wild
02:16:18: <Baby_Luigi> Super Mario Odyssey Kingdoms
02:16:18: <Turb> yeah like
02:16:22: <Turb> smo isn't as cohesive
02:16:37: <Raiko_Chaorikawa> is paper mario really
02:16:38: <Raiko_Chaorikawa> all that coherent
02:16:45: <Raiko_Chaorikawa> or rogueport and its surrondings
02:16:48: <Baby_Luigi> TTYD isn't
02:16:51: <Baby_Luigi> the first one is more coherent
02:16:55: <Raiko_Chaorikawa> and flipside/flopside isn't the setting of an entire game
02:17:04: <Raiko_Chaorikawa> so if we're wanting to be consistent we'd need to reword that one
02:17:08: <Anton{Politoed}> 4this award feels _ if it's tough just figuring out how to nominate something
02:17:33: <Baby_Luigi> why is Mushroom Kingdom split from SMB from PM anyway
02:17:44: <Lakituthequick> i haven't played any paper mario's yet so can't judge those
02:17:45: <Anton{Politoed}> 4"M28 - Favorite Game Setting - The game with the best setting overall. Focus is placed on the entirety of the setting as a whole, rather than just individual areas."
02:17:49: <Anton{Politoed}> 4is what our current definition is
02:17:54: <Shoey> I think the paper mario world is now considered a different world baby_luigi
02:17:56: <Anton{Politoed}> 4so it is the whole game
02:18:01: <Anton{Politoed}> 4and SMO just doesn't fit this
02:18:04: <Shoey> like how we've go super mario rpg world on here
02:18:06: <Baby_Luigi> Since Paper Jam...?
02:18:14: <__2257> 7i dont think its about paper jam
02:18:17: <__2257> 7the thing is
02:18:33: <__2257> 7the focus is supposed to be on the setting as depicted in a specific game
02:18:41: <Anton{Politoed}> 4honestly I'm perfectly fine with dismantling this award and reworking it
02:18:45: <__2257> 7so smb and paper mario are jsut separate because theyre separate games
02:18:48: <Raiko_Chaorikawa> i'm ok with it
02:18:50: <Raiko_Chaorikawa> as in
02:18:56: <Baby_Luigi> But Mushroom Kingdom is like different in every Mario game anyway
02:18:56: <Raiko_Chaorikawa> replacing/overhauling this award
02:19:00: <Gamefreak75> im fine with that
02:19:02: <Lakituthequick> smo is all different settings really so ..
02:19:04: <smasher> ok id be ok with overhauling this
02:19:05: <Baby_Luigi> Super Mario 64 is different than Super Mario Bros.
02:19:07: <__2257> 7not because theyre supposedly separate locations within the fictional chronology of the series
02:19:08: <Meta_knight> 10i agree with anton/perch
02:19:24: <__2257> 7well yeah but we couldnt include all of them
02:19:29: <__2257> 7that would be too many nominees
02:19:51: <Stargazing> yeah agree
02:19:56: <Baby_Luigi> imo it's a bit messy to me
02:20:05: <Anton{Politoed}> 4I'll make a thread for this after the meeting
02:20:13: <Lakituthequick> :eek:k:
02:20:15: <Anton{Politoed}> 4but just some examples of how we could approach this is:
02:20:17: <Baby_Luigi> People might like Mushroom Kingdom in SMB3 but not in SMB idk
02:20:20: <Baby_Luigi> it's bizarre
02:20:21: <Anton{Politoed}> 4redefine the entire award
02:20:33: <Anton{Politoed}> 4allow individual locations under certain circumstances
02:20:37: <McD> presumably its just treated as different parts of the same kingdom
02:20:40: <Anton{Politoed}> 4replace the award entirely
02:20:40: <__2257> 7im pretty sure its like this to try and keep it from being a retread of favorite level
02:20:48: <Anton{Politoed}> 4yeah
02:20:57: <Lakituthequick> good point
02:21:04: <Baby_Luigi> Let's save this for thread then
02:21:21: <Anton{Politoed}> 4if we included entire kingdoms in favorite level then it's redundant in here as well
02:21:27: <Raiko_Chaorikawa> i think
02:21:32: <Raiko_Chaorikawa> i'd be down for just scrapping the award
02:21:38: <Raiko_Chaorikawa> and coming up with an alternative
02:21:43: <Raiko_Chaorikawa> this has alwas been one of those weird awards
02:21:51: <Anton{Politoed}> 4we could also ju9st not include SMO but that feels bad
02:21:57: <Baby_Luigi> I do think the award has a good concept though
02:22:01: <McD> itd get write-ins as well
02:22:09: <Baby_Luigi> It serves as a cumulation of levels, not just one particular level
02:22:09: <Lakituthequick> it already got last year
02:22:18: <Turb> i like the concept of the award
02:22:27: <McD> it made sense up until odyssey
02:22:28: <Turb> but if we have any other ideas floating around they can be pitched
02:22:33: <Turb> yeah thats the thing
02:22:37: <McD> most mario games stuck to the same general location
02:22:38: <Turb> it was shaky if workable
02:22:44: <smasher> i like the concept of the award too
02:22:45: <Turb> odyssey is too spread out
02:22:47: <McD> except galaxy which is easier to account for because it had a hub world
02:22:52: <Turb> workable if shaky
02:22:52: <Anton{Politoed}> 4yeah like I wouldn't vote for "all of SMO' in this award because fuck Luncheon Kingdom
02:22:54: <Turb> whatever
02:23:02: <__2257> 7i honestly dont think odyssey has changed things
02:23:02: <Anton{Politoed}> 4but I want to rig the award for SMO's Bowser's Kingdom
02:23:05: <__2257> 7smb3 had basically
02:23:07: <__2257> 7the same setting
02:23:16: <Baby_Luigi> I agree with 2257
02:23:32: <McD> but smb3 is kinda easier to ignore
02:23:37: <Baby_Luigi> Also, galaxies technically aren't related to each other either
02:23:43: <Anton{Politoed}> 4yeah that's one of the ways to approach it, by just changing the definition to allow it and be more clear
02:23:48: <McD> whereas odyssey is like the biggest mario game right now
02:23:53: <Lakituthequick> yeah but they share the whole 'galaxy' thing
02:24:03: <Baby_Luigi> But doesn't Odyssey share Kingdoms as well..?
02:24:13: <Baby_Luigi> with their own unique currency and moons?
02:24:20: <__2257> 7i think kingdoms are as coherent of a theme as galaxies are
02:24:34: <Baby_Luigi> ^
02:24:44: <Lakituthequick> yeah
02:24:46: <__2257> 7they all kind of follow the same format with yeah, th ecurrency and moons
02:25:00: <__2257> 7as well as the inhabitants, the way the levels are named, the tourist book thing, etc
02:25:05: <Baby_Luigi> The only exceptions are the arena kingdoms but we can easily exclude those
02:25:38: <Lakituthequick> i feel like there is some distinqtion but you raise good points
02:25:45: <__2257> 7the award is about the way the setting is presented in the game, and i think theres a clear theme here
02:25:57: <__2257> 7its not incoherent
02:26:36: <Anton{Politoed}> 4ok well I'll make this a forum thread
02:26:38: <Baby_Luigi> I think we should save this for thread
02:26:39: <Baby_Luigi> Yeah
02:26:41: <Turb> yeah
02:26:50: <Anton{Politoed}> 4I'm siding with 22 but I'm _____________ on the whole thing
02:26:59: <Anton{Politoed}> 4I feel we'll just need to regroup the nominees at the very least
 

Anton

kero?
Chat Administrator
Core 'Shroom Staff
Awards Committee
Pronouns
He/him
What I'd like to point out is if we add a nominee for SMO being the entire world within that game, how do we acknowledge "Bowser's Castle" already being a nominee? Bowser's Castle in SMO was pretty different from other versions of it.

And if this is the entire setting as a whole and not individual parts, what about "Rogueport & surrounding areas" and "Bowser's Castle"?
 

Sou Hiyori

miss sara it seems i'm stuck on marioboards.com
Wiki Administrator
Chat Administrator
Awards Committee
Former 'Shroom Staff
Pronouns
He/him
MarioWiki
Turboo
What context was Bowser's Castle originally added under? I can't recall any game off the top of my head where it's the primary setting, and it feels very out-of-place on this award if it was added as a catch-all for all the Bowser's Castles when different iterations of the Mushroom Kingdom are separated.

As for Rogueport, I remember that we did want to find a more definitive name for that, but we thought at the time that the "& surrounding areas" was enough to encompass the entire game. For what it is worth, the wiki mentions that Rogueport is part of the Mushroom Kingdom, which goes against what I originally thought. (Rogueport#cite_note-1) It's a bit odd, though, since Rogueport & surrounding areas is a lot more immediately identifiable, while Mushroom Kingdom (TTYD) is the most "technically" correct.

I'm between a rock and a hard place where I don't want to gut and reword this entire award, but it feels like that's what has to be done to make it internally consistent overall (not just with Odyssey).
 

Gabumon

Data type
Chat Administrator
Core 'Shroom Staff
Awards Committee
Retired Wiki Staff
I would like to point out that this award seems to have been created as a mirror of F14: Worst Location, which was originally pitched here: https://www.marioboards.com/index.php?topic=36644.0

The inconsistencies that were noticed do not exist in that award, so I think something may have gotten mixed up when the concept was ported over to the Mario awards. For example, it has been brought up that "Flip/Flopside" does not encompass the entirety of Super Paper Mario, but as you can see the original version lists it as "Flip-/Flopside + dimensions (SPM)". I don't understand why Bowser's Castle is on there. If it can't be verified as having been the setting of a game, it should be removed.

I also don't think that the Super Mario Odyssey kingdoms have to be split up for this award. They are very diverse locations, yes, but that in itself is to the setting's credit. That's what makes it a good candidate for this award: Diversity is a quality, not grounds for disqualification.

Essentially, what this award is asking is: "Which of these games had the best environments/designs/locations in its entirety? " We could just list the games, but we list the locations to aid recognition. In a way, it's judging the quality of an entire event, rather than just the hors d'oeuvres. If we're trying to determine who throws the best parties, splitting up the buffet of one and making it compete with itself isn't going to help us.

Let's just rename the nominees to be more consistent with the original intent, throw out the ones that don't fit, and put Odyssey on there as well. I don't know if the setting has an official name.
 

Tyrell Badd

"The hated boss who beats you down..."
Chat Administrator
Retired Forum Mod
Retired Wiki Staff
Former 'Shroom Staff
Pronouns
He/him
I agree with edo in that we should sift through the list and remove entries that are too vague and/or broad (i.e. Bowser's Castle appears in multiple games with differing appearances).

Worst case scenario we just axe it.
 

Sou Hiyori

miss sara it seems i'm stuck on marioboards.com
Wiki Administrator
Chat Administrator
Awards Committee
Former 'Shroom Staff
Pronouns
He/him
MarioWiki
Turboo
I don't think it needs to be axed, Edo's post made things a lot clearer.

As for a really basic mockup:

Favorite Game Setting (Mushroom Kingdom (SMB), Mushroom Kingdom (PM), Super Mario RPG World, Dinosaur Land, Yoshi's Island, Isle Delfino, Beanbean Kingdom, Rogueport & surrounding areas, Flipside & Flopside + dimensions, Bowser's Castle, Sarasaland, Donkey Kong Island, Sprixie Kingdom, Comet Observatory & Galaxies, Pi'illo Island, Prism Island, Super Mario Odyssey World (tentative))
That gives us 16 nominees. I think a case could be made to clarify DK Island because of DKC/DK64; Yoshi's Island is, as far as I can remember, only a primary setting in Yoshi's Island itself, so that shouldn't be an issue.
 

Reko Yabusame

I love theming after games I have never played!
Forum Moderator
Chat Operator
Core 'Shroom Staff
Awards Committee
Pronouns
He/him
MarioWiki
Superchao
Izuku Midoriya said:
Yoshi's Island is, as far as I can remember, only a primary setting in Yoshi's Island itself, so that shouldn't be an issue.
Yoshi's Island is also used as the setting for Yoshi's Island DS (but not New Island), so we should clarify it into SMW2. Other than that, looks good to me.
 

Gabumon

Data type
Chat Administrator
Core 'Shroom Staff
Awards Committee
Retired Wiki Staff
Donkey Kong Island is also used as the primary setting in both DKC1 and DK64. The DKC1 version has a lot more going on, so that's probably the one that is meant.

EDIT: Although it could also be the one in DKCR, now that I think about it.
 

Ultra Violet

Visible, purple, and does not cause sunburns.
Wiki Patroller
Poll Committee
Pronouns
She/her
MarioWiki
Ray Trace
My stance is basically articulated by Edo: this award is talking about the summnation of locations as a whole rather than examining games individually: basically, which setting has the best overall qualities. And to be frank, if we're going to distinguish locations based purely on their aesthetics, we could also discriminate locations within the Mushroom Kingdom itself, as its jungle world is drastically different than its plains counterpart (and what does this make Star World, an entity that takes place in space...?)

Bowser's Castle shouldn't be on there, as it also has quite drastic appearances and as other posters already stated, was never the de facto setting of any game (Mushroom Kingdom is technically a greater location of Bowser's Castle-people who vote for Mushroom Kingdom indirectly vote for Bowser's Castle within).
 
Top