Tokens - Deflation, distribution, and other issues

Anton

kero?
Chat Administrator
Core 'Shroom Staff
Awards Committee
if in your "combination of 1 and 3" it accounts for a tournament requiring heavier participation than a tournament with an equal number of participants, then I support it, because I feel that's an aspect that needs to be covered otherwise we're gonna be setting up a system where the most incentivized tournament will be a no-effort free-for-all

also, do presentation and shroom tokens fit into this, or are those two separate wild beasts?
 

Kazooie

Red-crested Breegull
Chat Administrator
Core 'Shroom Staff
Awards Committee
Retired Wiki Staff
We could modify the token base value depending on how much participation is required. Like, if you're hosting a standard tournament, you get 30 per person, but if you host one where the goal is to press a button once, you get 5.

I don't really know what constitutes a low-participation tournament though. Have we had something like this before? Do you have examples?

Shroom and presentation tokens aren't tournaments. There's no competition going on, they're more like bonuses. As such they would be separate entities.
 

Lord Bowser

Super High School Level Bowser
Core 'Shroom Staff
Poll Committee
participation is a really subjective thing imo, perhaps it could be something decided by the committee as a whole?

like we can look over all the tourneys and the committee can collectively argue "x tournament had a lot of participation but y tournament not so much", along with asking the hosts themselves for their judgement

stuff like awards mafia, art contest, etc. i would view as high participation, while smaller things with less players and less competition (perhaps something like the mk7 tournament? that's all i can really think of as low for this year) would be low participation
 

Kazooie

Red-crested Breegull
Chat Administrator
Core 'Shroom Staff
Awards Committee
Retired Wiki Staff
"Participation" in this context only means "effort that needs to be exerted to perform your function as a participant". Number of sign-ups does not factor into this, because that is already covered by the "x amount of tokens per head" clause. So I guess let's call this "low-effort" instead, to make it less confusing.

Lord Bowser said:
stuff like awards mafia, art contest, etc. i would view as high participation, while smaller things with less players and less competition (perhaps something like the mk7 tournament? that's all i can really think of as low for this year) would be low participation
What makes MK7 low-effort compared to everything else? It's still an active competition that I think is on-par with the other tournaments. The only difference I can think of is that Mario Kart generally has a higher number of players per "match", which means fewer matches total, and thus it doesn't take as long as other tournaments. But I'm not sure if that really means it's low-effort.

Like, if we set up different effort categories, one thing we should definitely be wary of is the mindset of "well, we have this low-effort category, so we have to put SOMETHING into it". That's not the case at all. If there's nothing that fits, nothing should be put in.

Lord Bowser said:
participation is a really subjective thing imo, perhaps it could be something decided by the committee as a whole?

like we can look over all the tourneys and the committee can collectively argue "x tournament had a lot of participation but y tournament not so much", along with asking the hosts themselves for their judgement
In my experience, while this would be an ideal setup in theory, in practice this sort of thing is very hard to coordinate and often just fails due to inactivity. Getting everyone to sit down and thoroughly, actively, and individually evaluate every tournament would be a huge hassle, and more likely than not just result in the head staff running around begging people for input, as it usually does. Throw having to wait for host input into the mix on top of that, and you've got yourself a situation.

In the long run, I feel like it would be more efficient to just have a standard setup that can be easily referenced, and then discuss the exceptions (if they exist) rather than each and every entry.
 

Lord Bowser

Super High School Level Bowser
Core 'Shroom Staff
Poll Committee
idk, mk7 was the one thing that came to mind for some reason, but yeah after further inspection it's pretty on-par

and yeah you make a good point re: effort categories, i didn't think about it that way. it would be best to avoid labeling things as low-effort for the sake of having a low-effort category

unfortunately i can't really think of any other possible solutions to this issue atm so i'm not really able to contribute further :/
 

Anton

kero?
Chat Administrator
Core 'Shroom Staff
Awards Committee
I'm kinda just waiting on humblebundle to do something before I finalize this, which hopefully happens sooner than later .. .. .. ....... . .. . . . ..... .. ..
 

Anton

kero?
Chat Administrator
Core 'Shroom Staff
Awards Committee
Here's some logs of me blabbering on with a tl;dr being:

*Edo's plan sounds gr8
*30 tokens per person in each tournament granted to the host to divvy up as they see fit
*Hosts can request wiggle room if they need more or less
*If things seem unfair, we can still stick our nose in
*Prize prices will remain the same, with an average goal being $0.12 USD/token, give or take, using that as a base combined with babby's first supply & demand chart

This is technically open to discussion but I'm pushing pretty hard for this to be a quick and easy decision to begin applying asap after poll tallying is done

20:31 Anton{Politoed} what I take by your numbers is that
20:31 Anton{Politoed} we're not wildly going to change rates or anything, but
20:31 Anton{Politoed} just create a system that makes more sense
20:31 Anton{Politoed} and is consistent
20:32 Anton{Politoed} therefore, prize totals are remaining the same
20:32 Anton{Politoed} which means I just gotta spin my dick around and collect every tournament and how many people participated/will receive tokens
20:32 Gabumon ok
20:32 Anton{Politoed} because hosting also awards tokens
20:32 Anton{Politoed} and that didn't really have a system either beyond how much I felt they deserved for the work they put in
20:33 Anton{Politoed} this shouldn't be too hard, just
20:33 Anton{Politoed} gotta do it
20:33 Anton{Politoed} and also deciding if your example of 30/person is what we're using
20:34 Anton{Politoed} 30 did create totals that were representative of what we tried to aim at for fairness in previous years
20:34 Anton{Politoed} so I don't think we should spend much time debating whether 30/35/40/etc. will be better
20:34 Anton{Politoed} 30 works
20:35 Anton{Politoed} "omething along the lines of us making the calculations like in 3., and then giving the result to the hosts as a guideline. Like, send them a message like "We've calculated that the optimal total for your tournament is 480 tokens. Please plan your payout accordingly.""
20:35 Anton{Politoed} when you say that
20:35 Anton{Politoed} does that imply AC staff will create a projected final tally, or
20:35 Anton{Politoed} just the sum
20:36 Anton{Politoed} 'final tally' as in like
20:36 Anton{Politoed} "here's what we feel 1st place should receive, 2nd place, 3rd, etc."
20:36 Anton{Politoed} that sounds like too much micromanaging so if you did mean that i'm gonna go ehhhhh
20:36 Anton{Politoed} but I don't think you did
20:37 Gabumon no, I didnt mean that
20:37 Gabumon we just give people a total with some wiggle room
20:37 Gabumon how they divide it up is up to them
20:38 Anton{Politoed} with the unspoken note that if their divisions are suspicious, that we retain the authority to change it
20:38 Anton{Politoed} not gonna piss myself over someone in 1st place receiving 70 and going 'waaaah they should get 75'
20:39 Anton{Politoed} but if it's like 1st gets 150 tokens and 2nd gets 35 then
20:39 Anton{Politoed} _
20:39 Anton{Politoed} I'll probably post these logs as a confirmation of what we're doing
20:40 Anton{Politoed} in that thread
20:40 Anton{Politoed} instead of just doing it immediately
20:41 Anton{Politoed} re: low- vs. high-effort/participation tournaments
20:41 Anton{Politoed} I think the difference between most, if not all, of them are within a standard deviation
20:42 Anton{Politoed} so we could just take that up as per exception as they become obvious
20:42 Anton{Politoed} instead of codifying numbers into this right now
 
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