Author Topic: So, what exactly spurred this push for Toadette lately?  (Read 436 times)

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So, what exactly spurred this push for Toadette lately?
« on: July 07, 2019, 05:16:46 AM »
Let's make one thing clear: I am a fan of Toadette
Basically the question is why has Nintendo become so fond of her? Keep in mind characters who debut in spin-offs usually stay there, the closet thing Waluigi has to a main series appearance is a costume in Odessy, ever since the Switch era begin, Toadette been showing up in a lot of games, usually with main roles, playable roles.
I do think it is due to Peach being an end goal in most games, with her being here to push a woman oriented flavor to the franchise without that being sacrificed, that's just my theory
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Re: So, what exactly spurred this push for Toadette lately?
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2019, 06:03:26 AM »
I like Toadette too but I'm honestly not a fan of her acting as a replacement for playable Peach. Why not have both. Peach isn't even kidnapped in SMM2 (that I know of, haven't finished story mode) so I'm hoping they're just saving her for a tie-in to a SMB2 theme update.


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Re: So, what exactly spurred this push for Toadette lately?
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2019, 06:27:38 AM »
Peach isn't kidnapped, she just comes along at the end of the game and congratulates you on rebuilding her castle, gives you a few a levels, and then just stands around doing nothing like every other NPC.

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Re: So, what exactly spurred this push for Toadette lately?
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2019, 07:33:31 AM »
Because Nintendo has realized that cute girly little people are very popular and are pushing her as such to cash in on a craze.

Thats my guess anyway.
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Re: So, what exactly spurred this push for Toadette lately?
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2019, 01:01:03 PM »
Because Nintendo has realized that cute girly little people are very popular and are pushing her as such to cash in on a craze.

Thats my guess anyway.
I like to think that demographic is mainly girls and women and that hopefully makes gaming more inclusive for them but, can't shake the feeling it's only partially true.

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Re: So, what exactly spurred this push for Toadette lately?
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2019, 01:01:19 PM »
I like Toadette and it's good that's she's made the break from spin-off only playable character to getting roles in Mario titles. Seriously, characters like Wario, Waluigi, and Daisy can use the same treatment as her.
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Re: So, what exactly spurred this push for Toadette lately?
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2019, 01:10:04 PM »
For the past few years it seems like Nintendo has been pretty dedicated to giving some characters that have been on the sidelines for awhile another shot in the spotlight and receive a massive spike in popularity. We've already seen this with the Koopalings, Rosalina, Pauline and now most recently Toadette.

Makes me wonder if Toadsworth will be making a comeback in the future.

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Re: So, what exactly spurred this push for Toadette lately?
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2019, 10:20:38 PM »
I have a feeling that Toadette is so much easier and more natural to fit into the main narrative of a Mario game, since she is after all a female Toad, and Toads are already considered the go-to character in Mario games. There is a reason that Toadette even branched off in other Mario spin-offs like Paper Mario (Thousand Year Door), Mario & Luigi (Paper Jam), Captain Toad and most recently Super Mario Maker 2. Her inclusion is also a breath of fresh air mainly because she provides a different look for a Toad (beyond being a recolour) while highlighting that she is an important Toad character.

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Re: So, what exactly spurred this push for Toadette lately?
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2019, 10:26:58 PM »
its just to give the player a female option thats super easy to make without bothering making Peach playable.

It's trash tbh, i don't dislike toadette at all however you can't deny that her recent push is pure bs in order to not to add other characters who are more complex.

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Re: So, what exactly spurred this push for Toadette lately?
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2019, 10:53:32 PM »
I like Toadette and all, but I can never accept her as a replacement to playable Peach.  I wish Nintendo would just let go of that "Peach gets kidnapped and Mario defeats Bowser to save her" plot; it's a thing of the past that no one wants anymore, plus it's a direct roadblock to a playable Peach.  What they're doing now is a slap in the face to Peach fans, even moreso than it is a sign of hope for Waluigi fans.  It's something I just can't stand for.

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Re: So, what exactly spurred this push for Toadette lately?
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2019, 03:24:04 PM »
Is she really a replacement for playable Peach though, or are we just assuming that?

Because it might in the end just be that they really wanna make Toadette playable, is all.

Also we don't need a plot at all, even less a plot change. I honestly don't see a problem with Peach getting kidnapped, so long as the game that this leads to is a good game. You're honestly not going into a Mario game to experience an exciting story, it's more about the platforming fun. Even with Paper Mario nowadays it's more to do with the charming visuals and exploration, and I honestly really like that direction as controversial as saying that is.

So yeah, I don't see the need to change the plot at all and I have absolutely no complains about Toadette being playable even if it turns out she is a Peach replacement. I understand that people may want to play as her for the aesthetics of it or even for her floatiness but it's not a priority for me.

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Re: So, what exactly spurred this push for Toadette lately?
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2019, 03:31:36 PM »
Well I can sorta feel how it's like for Peach fans to constantly see their favorite character always get kidnapped and never gets a chance to shine in the games.
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Re: So, what exactly spurred this push for Toadette lately?
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2019, 03:51:29 PM »
I mean yeah, it sucks. Sure, I get that.

I wasn't saying she SHOULDN'T be playable, I'm just saying I personally find it unnecessary, which is where we get all opiniony and stuff, you know?

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Re: So, what exactly spurred this push for Toadette lately?
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2019, 03:53:05 PM »
Toadette isn't replacing Peach. If they want to make Peach playable, they will.

So yeah I agree with you that she isn't replacing Peach to begin with. Story is so lite in Mario games that they can easily make any excuse plot they want.
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Re: So, what exactly spurred this push for Toadette lately?
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2019, 10:09:16 PM »
Well I dunno, as long as Peachette exists I'll always view Toadette as a lazy replacement to playable Peach.

Also we don't need a plot at all, even less a plot change. I honestly don't see a problem with Peach getting kidnapped, so long as the game that this leads to is a good game.
And yet I do disagree with Miyamoto's views on story.  I couldn't agree with Kumazaki (modern Kirby director) more: to paraphrase, while not essential to the game, it's still an important component that helps deepen the experience.  It's not outright unnecessary, like Miyamoto would say.

Kirby does things so much better than Mario in this aspect, imo.  The main reason why I'm such a big fan of Kirby is because of its deep yet subtle plots that don't get in the way of gameplay.  It creates a more in-depth experience and allows it to develop its characters more.  Mario has solid gameplay as well, but the story just isn't as great, even in the RPGs.  Its characters feel less developed than Kirby despite appearing in far more games.  The experience just isn't as optimal as it could be.

Yes, gameplay comes first and foremost in the making of any game, and that's what people come for.  But that doesn't mean that story should just be thrown out.  Sure, Mario doesn't need story as it still has solid gameplay, but I also couldn't disagree more with Miyamoto that Mario shouldn't have story.

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Re: So, what exactly spurred this push for Toadette lately?
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2019, 10:16:50 PM »
1. Toadette isn't that lazy to Peach. They're gonna make Peach assets regardless, because she already plays a role as damsel in distress. They can easily import rotations from Mario and Luigi animations onto Peach's skeleton, which is likely what they did to convert to Toad's frame, maybe make tweaks to some animations to make it more Peach-like. Besides, Peachette having all of these fancy animations and whatever too means that they actually piled more effort onto making Toadette playable, not less. No one else has a power-up that drastically changes bones and textures the same way Peachette does to Toadette.

2. Honestly, sometimes I feel like story is not always vital to a game experience. Some games are more built around being a story-driven experience, other games enjoy the brevity of the gameplay without all of the baggage that comes with the story. While I do feel like some Mario games are very bland and stale, I feel like it's more of an issue of the newer Mario games in general not trying hard at all. It doesn't need a story to be fresh, it needs a better presentation and more ideas of what to do with the Mario IP and levels. We saw how New Super Mario Bros. for DS changed things up for Mario, as well as what Odyssey did for Mario. It's not like Nintendo is incapable of making a new 2D Mario platformer interesting again. They just need to stop regurgitating old level mechanics with the bare mininum effort layer applied to a game that feels aged like what they did with NSMBU.
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Re: So, what exactly spurred this push for Toadette lately?
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2019, 10:30:53 PM »
I don't see Toadette as a "lazy replacement" to Peach. It just feels like a false cause, the fallacious assumption that one event preceding another means that one event caused the other. Nevertheless, I still think they're being lazy with New Super Mario Bros. U, though, because an independent modder with virtually no budget has been able to pull off a Peach and Daisy mod for New Super Mario Bros. Wii.

I also disagree that including a story is mandatory to the experience. It has the assumption that stories are always good addition to a game when reality is that a story does have the possibility of bringing down other aspects of the game as with any other mechanic, defeating the goals of what kind of an experience a game delivers. Sure, a well-implemented story can be a notable part of a video game, but I feel there's always going to be some compromises with the elegance of a game and its goals, and I view story maintenance as more of a balance, though not necessarily zero-sum but something that should be considered. Mario just seems to be a completely inappropriate venue for a great story, in my opinion. His series is always about simplicity, elegance, straight-forwardness; it's why so many people love it. And also, I really wouldn't bring up Kirby as an example of how to do story as Kirby also follows very cookie cutter plot lines, almost as bad as Mario, but Mario has the benefit of self-awareness, never taking itself seriously. Kirby is known for its gameplay, its cutesy graphics, its combat, and its characters, not for its story. Kirby does not have "developed" characters either. I believe you overstate that.

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Re: So, what exactly spurred this push for Toadette lately?
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2019, 12:44:13 PM »
I'm just glad to see Nintendo using more Mario characters in the main games.

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Re: So, what exactly spurred this push for Toadette lately?
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2019, 12:55:33 PM »
I can't say Toadette is indicative of a trend that Nintendo is putting more characters in their games. Pauline is the only other example I can think of, but she hasn't appeared in anything beyond Mario Tennis Aces. Beyond this, Wario, Waluigi, Daisy, Donkey Kong, the babies, and Diddy Kong are still relegated to mainly spinoffs. Heck, I feel Rosalina recently became one of the spinoff regulars.