Author Topic: Smash Bros. Character Merit (Ultimate Edition)  (Read 5499 times)

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Re: Smash Bros. Character Merit (Switch Edition)
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2018, 03:15:50 PM »
I really want waluigi. :waluigi:
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GalacticPetey

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Re: Smash Bros. Character Merit (Switch Edition)
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2018, 03:37:10 PM »
Regarding Chorus Men, a series icon for Rhythm Heaven was found grouped with the other playable series icons by dataminers. That plus the Gematsu leak makes me think the Chorus Men or a RH character in general was planned.

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Re: Smash Bros. Character Merit (Switch Edition)
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2018, 03:40:56 PM »
Okami
Balloon Fighter
Ashley
Sora

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Re: Smash Bros. Character Merit (Switch Edition)
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2018, 04:43:54 PM »
Quote
Celica
Most of the other FE characters were based on a game that was relatively new at the time they debuted.
...
That said, I’m not too big in the Fire Emblem scene. So maybe I’m dead wrong about this. Apologies if I am.

If you were unaware, Celica (along with Alm) originated in Gaiden, the second game in the series.  This game saw a very well received remake recently with Shadows of Valentia.  While technically not recent, they both are relevant again in the FE community.  There are even 2 versions of Celica in Heroes.  She's also Warriors while Alm isn't.

Personally I can't say of any of that increases her chances for a Smash appearance.  Having played through SoV twice now, I don't think there's much she could bring to the table that Robin doesn't since she's also a sword-wielding mage.  Magic works differently in her game in that spell casting hurts the caster and I don't think anyone would want another Pichu scenario.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2018, 04:50:30 PM by Weasel »

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Re: Smash Bros. Character Merit (Switch Edition)
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2018, 06:04:54 PM »
Dovahkiin due to how universally acclaimed Skyrim is and seeing that Nintendo is getting some Skyrim love.

Crash Bandicoot for being a video game icon and the recent announcement of the Crash N Sane trilogy being ported to the Switch.


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Re: Smash Bros. Character Merit (Switch Edition)
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2018, 06:32:43 PM »
I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on Impa.

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Re: Smash Bros. Character Merit (Switch Edition)
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2018, 07:52:40 PM »
Regarding Chorus Men, a series icon for Rhythm Heaven was found grouped with the other playable series icons by dataminers. That plus the Gematsu leak makes me think the Chorus Men or a RH character in general was planned.
If you were unaware, Celica (along with Alm) originated in Gaiden, the second game in the series.  This game saw a very well received remake recently with Shadows of Valentia.  While technically not recent, they both are relevant again in the FE community.  There are even 2 versions of Celica in Heroes.  She's also Warriors while Alm isn't.

Personally I can't say of any of that increases her chances for a Smash appearance.  Having played through SoV twice now, I don't think there's much she could bring to the table that Robin doesn't since she's also a sword-wielding mage.  Magic works differently in her game in that spell casting hurts the caster and I don't think anyone would want another Pichu scenario.

Thanks for the feedback.

So yeah Chorus Men is looking like a real strong possibility

And I did see that Celica had some recency with some recent titles. But wasn't sure if that was enough. It might make her at least a little more likelier then I made her out to be but I think competition will still be fierce.


Anyway back to the merit thoughts



Okami

Type of Character: 3rd Party Newcomer
Franchise: Okami

My Level of Want

Would be ok, though I've never played Okami. Though I think I saw at least most of Chuggaaconroy's let's play of the game. And it seemed nice enough. Capcom's already got Mega Man and Ryu in there though. Maybe give some space for other companies to have their shot. Otherwise this starts turning into Nintendo Vs. Capcom

Estimated Chance

Just going to repeat this: Capcom already has Megaman and Ryu. And as loved as Okami is the character probably isn't the legend of gaming Mega Man and Ryu are. There may even be stiff competition from other Capcom franchises if for some reason they gave Capcom a 3rd character like Dante or Phoenix Wright.


Balloon Fighter

Type of Character: Newcomer
Franchise: Balloon Fight

My Level of Want

Would be a relatively well known retro character coming in. So I'd be fine. Sakurai considered him back in the Melee days. Maybe Jigglypuff would finally have a challenge in terms of having the best air game/recovery

Estimated Chance

With how many chances since Melee that Balloon Fighter failed to make it. I'm not sure if it will ever happen. I think Villager's recovery is pretty much Balloon Fighter in spirit. So basically Villager is as close as we're going to get.


Ashley

Type of Character: Newcomer
Franchise: Warioware

My Level of Want

I do like Ashley, though probably far from GBA Toad's like for her, heh. She's probably a strong candidate should Wario recieve a 2nd rep. On a side note I am glad that even if it's mostly just remade classic games we have something new for WarioWare to look forward to. Always loved that series. So addicting

Estimated Chance

May be slightly higher then before thanks to WarioWare Gold. But I think it's more likely her assist trophy appearance returns instead. If they decide to give Wario more characters, Ashley is a strong candidate though.


Sora

Type of Character: 3rd Party Newcomer
Franchise: Kingdom Hearts

My Level of Want

Never played the Kingdom Hearts series. But Sora is kinda the only character semi-owned by Disney to have any shot in Smash. Though because he's kind of part Disney, that kind of makes it more difficult to include him because could they get away with making 4th Party trophies or even background appearences for Mickey, Donald, and/or Goofy? If they didn't include anything Disney and just do the Square/Final Fantasy stuff that kinda nerfs representing the series for what it is. So it's kinda complicated.

Estimated Chance

Even beyond the complications of Disney. And while there have been Kingdom Hearts games on Nintendo systems before (GBA and DS games if I recall correctly). None of the main series Kingdom Hearts games have made it onto a Nintendo console. And I don't think KH3 is going to arrive on Switch any time soon. So Sora's in quite the pickle. You have the strange part Disney ownership, Square already got Cloud in and he'd likely come back if Square were to include a character, Kingdom Hearts doesn't even have the advantage Final Fantasy has that it once was an exclusive franchise in the old days, and Square does have other franchises that could prove to be stiff competition even beyond that. So I think Sora's not any more likely then he was last time. Cloud, who is even a character who appears in Kingdom Hearts sometimes pretty much sunk his chances.


Last Dragonborn/Dovahkiin

Type of Character: 3rd Party Newcomer
Franchise: The Elder Scrolls

My Level of Want

I've never played Skyrim. Despite the attempts to port that to literally every gaming device that released at the time or after Skyrim was originally made. But he's an extremely "eh" character. Like even more so then a random Fire Emblem character. Why would we ever get a 3rd Party character that's supposed to be an avatar for the player? That's fair game for some 1st party characters like the Miis, Robin, Villager, and so on. But a 3rd party avatar character? It'd be pretty questionable.

Estimated Chance

I'm willing to admit that 3rd Parties have become a much wider open door then ever before. But I do still think the 3rd parties have to be recognizable to the general gaming public. While I don't think Bayonetta is on the legend status of the previous 3rd party characters to get in Smash, she was instantly recognizable once she appeared in her Smash trailer. While Dovahkiin does have a default appearance in promotional stuff for Skyrim, the fact that he's customizable means that appearance may not be the one that defines him for everybody. They could give him Male and female alts like many of the characters in Smash 4 that did that. But I think a 3rd party character in Smash must have a recognized appearance that makes you feel "OH THAT's *insert character*" once you see them. Those who aren't that familiar with Skyrim may be confused who he is until they finally name him. And that's not a good sign for a 3rd party character at all. It's cool people will have Skyrim portable on the Switch. But to the level of including the avatar of the game to Smash? I just don't see it.


Crash Bandicoot

Type of Character: 3rd Party Newcomer
Franchise: Crash Bandicoot

My Level of Want

Oh man, you have no idea how much I'd love it if it were to happen. I do really like the Crash franchise. Hell, I do have the N. Sane Trilogy on my PS4. And I'm considering getting it again on the Switch just because of the portability aspect. Also back when Playstation All-Stars was new, I said that the only way I was getting that game is if Crash made it in. And unfortunately he didn't, and to this day I still have not played Playstation All-Stars. So Crash was a pretty big deal for me. It would be super hilarious to see all the characters that Playstation looked over and know that Nintendo got to use them at least once like Snake, Ryu, and Cloud. And now Crash be added to all that. Mario, Sonic, and Crash have been on the same console before with the Gamecube, DS, and Wii games. But to have all three of them in one game will make all those who grew up and/or their childhood was in the late 90's squee in delight. I don't think it'd be on the level of what's already been achieved with Megaman and Pac-Man. But nonetheless very cool.

Estimated Chance

The N. Sane Trilogy being ported to the Switch certainly makes the chances higher then they were before. As last time we didn't even know if Crash was ever going to return at all. By default his chances are so much better as a result. He's certainly a dark horse candidate for a 3rd party newcomer spot. He just might be beaten ahead by other characters like say... Rayman. But he probably has a better chance now then Banjo-Kazooie at least. Hey, the way 3rd parties went even back in Smash 4 means just about anything's possible now. 3rd Parties can't get 2 characters? Ryu. Must have history on Nintendo consoles? Cloud. Must be a longtime well-known icon of gaming? Bayonetta. I think Crash is more then a possibility then he ever was. It probably won't be enough, but if it's going to happen. It can now.


Impa

Type of Character: Newcomer
Franchise: Zelda

My Level of Want

Again, not into the Zelda series. Covered her last time, and she is one of the few other then Triforce 3 to have recurring appearances even if vastly different versions. She's often either a warrior character mentioned to be Zelda's mentor or an old lady with lots of wisdom. In the most recent game, Breath of the Wild she's back as an old lady. But if she were to get in Smash. She'd likely be in the form she takes in Hyrule Warriors which harkens back to her Ocarina of Time appearance as a Shiekah warrior. Which could be cool but might get people worried she'd be at best an Luigified Shiek

Estimated Chance

Unfortunately, I don't have any more reason to change from what I said last time for most Zelda characters. That no matter what, the Zelda representation seems to be doomed to be restricted to Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, and any alternate versions of those 3. They could be clever by having Zelda be BOTW Zelda with much of the same moves she had in Smash 4. And Impa replacing Shiek and having Shiek's moves. But that might be somethings that fans of Shiek can't get behind even if Impa plays exactly like Shiek did. Or even especially if Impa plays just like Shiek.

Weasel

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Re: Smash Bros. Character Merit (Switch Edition)
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2018, 08:09:56 PM »
What are your thoughts on existing third-party franchises getting second reps?

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Re: Smash Bros. Character Merit (Switch Edition)
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2018, 09:14:49 PM »
What are your thoughts on existing third-party franchises getting second reps?

Hm, this isn't exactly character specific. But I still like this question. In general, I would be ok with it. But it has to be the right character. That 2nd character has to be an icon of gaming on their own right even if of course they aren't the main character of their franchise.

Not including Metal Gear because unfortunately, I just don't think Snake is ever coming back. (But just for the sake of saying it if by some miracle it happened, it'd probably be Raiden)

I'll break it down by franchise:

Sonic the Hedgehog
I think Sonic is the most likely 3rd party franchise to get another rep. The franchise is still super popular. And it's many classic characters are arguably as hype-inducing as a new 3rd Party rep would be. Even if there would be some people hating it if they don't like Sonic games. But I think every potential 3rd Party character has their haters. Maybe Mega Man probably has the least because he is by far the best fit for a 3rd Party then any other given the history with Nintendo. But I'm sure you can find someone who absolutely despised the inclusion of most of the others. It wouldn't be any different with a 2nd Sonic character I feel. Well unless it's Shadow because that would absolutely be a controversial choice.

Anyway, I think the most likely characters would be Tails and/or Knuckles. Slight Dark Horse for Eggman. But I think I've said even in Smash the sidekicks tend to get in before the main villain. (Luigi got in before Bowser, and such). I'm personally pulling for Tails, but I'll be fine even if Sonic is left alone once again. I would love Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, and Eggman to all be in. But that'd be quite greedy as that would be giving a 3rd party franchise more reps then most of the 1st party franchises most likely. Even with how popular Sonic is as a whole, I would understand why that would make people angry. I feel like Tails would be the most tolerable in terms of iconicness. He's Sonic's Luigi. It would absolutely make my entire life to see Sonic and Tails Vs. Mario and Luigi in Smash

Mega Man
Capcom already has a 2nd rep in Street Fighter. I think a different Capcom franchise would be more likely then a 2nd Mega Man character. If it did happen, it'd probably be Proto Man. Who would likely be at most Luigified from Mega Man. Maybe Dr. Wily? But I don't know about that. Though Zero from the Mega Man X series could be a dark horse.

Pac-Man
Does Pac-Man really have anyone that wouldn't be better served as an alternate costume? Ms. Pac-Man would probably be the most likely. And they can just make that an Alt. just like the gendered alts many other characters got. They wouldn't even need to hire another voice actor. Ms. Pac-Man would be easy to make an alt.

Street Fighter
Again just like with Mega Man. Capcom would likely add a different franchise were they to get a 3rd rep in. But Street Fighter does have a solid amount of fighters that could bring something to the table. I think M. Bison would probably be one of the most likely characters. Chun-Li and Ken would also be possibilities.

Final Fantasy
I actually think Final Fantasy could potentially be the 2nd most likely to get another rep in the same franchise. Cloud's iconic and deserves to be the first representative for Smash. But it would be something to have a 2nd representative that represents the classic games that were on the SNES or NES. Whether they go with Terra from FF6 or go to more of a generic route with the Warriors of Light, Black Mage, etc. I think it's still rather unlikely, but hey there's always the Dissidia series to satisfy the Final Fantasy fans.

Bayonetta
It would be a huge stretch for any other character then Bayonetta from her own series to make it. Only other character I suppose would be Jeanne given she's the trophy that shows up in Smash 4 after buying Bayonetta. People already kinda question how Bayonetta got in Smash to begin with. Do you know how many people would riot if somehow Bayonetta got a 2nd rep over other things? Yeah, Bayonetta's franchise is definitely the least likely out of any of the 3rd parties to get a 2nd rep.

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Re: Smash Bros. Character Merit (Switch Edition)
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2018, 02:50:08 PM »
I honestly think if square was gonna get another rep they'd pick sora (there were rumors that kingdom hearts 3 would be on the switch)

GalacticPetey

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Re: Smash Bros. Character Merit (Switch Edition)
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2018, 03:03:57 PM »
I could also see a Dragon Quest character of some sort.

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Re: Smash Bros. Character Merit (Switch Edition)
« Reply #31 on: March 11, 2018, 03:07:16 PM »
I honestly think if square was gonna get another rep they'd pick sora (there were rumors that kingdom hearts 3 would be on the switch)

I just don't know. Again I feel like the part-Disney ownership kind of makes Sora more complicated then most potential 3rd Party characters. I mean, they could just represent whatever is from Final Fantasy or was it's own thing in Kingdom Hearts and not refer to anything Disney perhaps. But then that wouldn't exactly be fair because it would misrepresent the series because the Disney half of it is a big part of the franchise. A franchise being represented in Smash should be relative to what the series has to offer. And they'd need to kinda have some kinda deal with Disney about it.

And i have no idea how complicated copyright would make that.

I could also see a Dragon Quest character of some sort.

Oh yeah I almost forgot about Dragon Quest. Certainly a protagonist from that series would be a possibilitiy. (It wouldn't be just the Slime like they did for Sports Mix, but maybe they could incorporate the slimes to whichever Dragon Quest Hero they choose in their moveset in some way or another.)

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Re: Smash Bros. Character Merit (Switch Edition)
« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2018, 03:44:31 PM »
I think it's gonna come down to if kingdom hearts 3 comes out on the switch or not
if it does I think Sora's got a pretty good chance.

GalacticPetey

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Re: Smash Bros. Character Merit (Switch Edition)
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2018, 04:23:26 PM »
Evens still, Cloud came to SSB4 without the FFVII remake getting ported.

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Re: Smash Bros. Character Merit (Switch Edition)
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2018, 04:37:42 PM »
I thought the whole "has to be on a Nintendo system" "rule" was bunk the moment Cloud showed his ugly face.

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Re: Smash Bros. Character Merit (Switch Edition)
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2018, 04:45:04 PM »
I'm more worried about Disney's copyright then anything else regarding Sora. It's true that Cloud showed you don't necessarily have to have a presence on Nintendo consoles to make it.

Though like I said earlier, Cloud is an icon of a series that used to be exclusive to Nintendo systems and probably would of remained on Nintendo had the Nintendo-Sony CD based system hadn't fallen through. Kingdom Hearts has only had spin-off games on Nintendo handhelds and none of the main series. I think that's a significant difference enough to make it a bit harder to see Sora get in Smash.

But hey I'm not saying it's impossible. Just giving reasons why it feels unlikely. If I'm wrong, I'll be willing to eat my words.

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Re: Smash Bros. Character Merit (Switch Edition)
« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2018, 04:49:13 PM »
I figured Sakurai's reasoning for Cloud was that Cloud was an iconic video game character who can get an interesting moveset. Beyond that, it's just fans making up rules by seeing patterns that don't exist. I don't know if Disney has the copyright on Sora, but if they don't, it'll be hard to avoid references to Disney (trophy descriptions, moveset itself) without stripping what makes Sora Sora.

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Re: Smash Bros. Character Merit (Switch Edition)
« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2018, 04:57:15 PM »
Most of Smash speculation I admit is based on people seeing what they want to see based on patterns or clues that think support their characters.

I won't lie that there are many things I've said that turned out wrong. Hell, I had an entire spiel and/or doubt on Dr. Mario and Roy in the previous merit thread. Yet I was made to look like a fool when they turned up in Smash 4 anyway. But it's alright, even wrong predictions are kind of part of the deal.

My entire OP might be useless if it turns out they had no problems with returning everybody from the previous game just like that. (Though tbh I'd be fine with that, because no cuts would be preferable to me even if that meant a smaller batch of newcomers). But right or wrong I do like delving into speculation anyhow. I've always found it fun since the Brawl days.

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Re: Smash Bros. Character Merit (Switch Edition)
« Reply #38 on: March 11, 2018, 05:06:48 PM »
I know this is never going to happen, but what would you say about Dimentio?

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Re: Smash Bros. Character Merit (Switch Edition)
« Reply #39 on: March 11, 2018, 05:10:39 PM »
People might reason that if there are serious budget constraints in the game,  the clones have a chance of going since they are dispensable. This is what happened to Pichu, Young Link, Dr. Mario, and Roy into the transition to Brawl (Dr. Mario and Roy were planned, however, but probably couldn't get in because Falco and Ganon got decloned so Dr. Mario and Roy would require effort to be declone here, assuming that developers wanted to declone them). Reality is though, characters with unique movesets have more of a chance to go because they take much more effort to transition to the next game. Mewtwo. After all, all the characters that were cut in Smash 4 had all pretty unique movesets: Lucas (added later as paid DLC), Snake, Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Ice Climbers. The last three were likely from game constraints. Squirtle and Ivysaur would probably saturate the roster, but at the same time, transformations can't be done due to the 3DS limitations. Charizard is kept because it's iconic, though I feel the three are a package and so it's strange Charizard is there. Finally, Melee was developed with severe time constraints and it probably has the most clones in the series: Falco, Young Link, Roy, Ganondorf, Pichu, Dr. Mario, and Smash 4 itself has nearly identical characters being Dark Pit and Lucina.



What's your opinion on Doomguy? I think he would make for a funny character, with all his guns being used for smash attacks and the BFG being the Final Smash of course. He's also a highly iconic character and we also had a surprising Doom port to Switch and also, there is a special history with John Romero and Super Mario Bros. 3. There is also this badass shirt but that's a side thing lol, but I guess it comes full circle.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 05:40:26 PM by LeftyGreenMario »