SonicMario's SSB4 Roster Guess (UPDATE: Version 4.0 on Reply #29)

EDIT: PLEASE GO TO PAGE 2 TO REPLY #29 FOR MY UPDATED ROSTER GUESS

Alright, I popped out the Roster Maker to give my own guess.

Keep in mind, I wanted to make this a decent balance where it's between a dream roster, where some risks are taken that might be stretches for the next game, and a completely expected roster with some of the most popular and expected characters. Given the news that both versions are going to have the same amount of characters I am willing to admit that the roster I have sounds like it'd be a bit much for the 3DS to handle. But the purpose of this is to guess most of it, I'm pretty sure not all of these characters will get in nor do I expect this to be the actual roster.



Columns 1 and 2: All 8 SSB64 Starters
Column 3: 4 Starters that Debuted in Melee
Column 4 and 5: 9 Starters that Debuted in Brawl
Column 6: 2 Confirmed Newcomers in SSB4, Plus two guesses (Little Mac and Miis)
Column 7: All 4 SSB64 Secret Characters
Column 8: 5 Secret Characters that Debuted in Melee
Column 9: 4 Secret Characters that Debuted in Brawl
Column 10: 1 Confirmed Newcomer in SSB4, Plus four guesses (Chrom, Shulk, Ridley, and Pac-Man)

The characters with a blue highlight are characters I'm guessing will be starters. While the ones in Yellow are Unlockable

If you're curious on the red section, I believe the game isn't going to go without at least one new Mario representative. The problem is I can't properly give a good guess on which is more likely. But all I'm predicting that is that only one of these four will make it in. I don't see more then one of them making it in.
Bowser Jr: Could be seen as Bowser's Diddy Kong, and have had a decent amount of roles in recent games.
Paper Mario: Say what you will about Sticker Star, the Paper Mario series still have left an impression and could be a chance for Sakurai to correct the Dr. Mario mistake in Melee by adding a different type of Mario but still with an all new moveset. If Mario RPGs are going to get any representation at all, Paper Mario is your best bet.
Waluigi: By now the Spin-Offs have been a large part of the Mario games since the N64. There's Mario Party, Mario Kart, and all the different Sports titles. And what's the one character that's gained a cult following ever since and has been exclusive to those games? That would be Waluigi
Toad: Call it Generic, but all you need to do is point at Villager and that's all you need to say that characters that can possibly represent a species aren't allowed. Plus , Toad's been subtly in some more games. Even if it's mostly the New Super Mario Bros. games with Blue and Yellow toad. But he'll also be in Super Mario 3D World (Even if it's not technically THE Toad given it's Blue Toad)
Again, I only think one of these will be in. Not all four. It just depends on whether they'd prefer having a sidekick for Bowser, RPG representation, Spin-Off Representations, or both historic and recent reasons.

Overall:
44 Total Characters
25 Starting characters
19 Secret Characters
34 Veterans
10 Newcomers

I was probably very conservative in terms of the Veterans. Only cutting Toon Link and Lucario. I'm not entirely well-versed in the Zelda universe so I won't be surprised if you Zelda fans don't like I didn't replace Toon Link with a different 4th Zelda rep. But I'm going with Mewtwo returning to take back the spot that Lucario had in Brawl. Either permanently in that new form or the ability to transform between the new form from Pokemon X and Y. Also I see 10 Newcomers as a fair amount but even I don't expect that many to pop up. At least not without some more veterans getting cut. (To be honest I'm starting to think I'm criticizing my own roster).

I do expect at least more characters then there are in Brawl. I might be underestimating the 3DS' capability. I don't think Sakurai would let the 3DS hamper the Wii U version so much that we get less character options then we did in Brawl. My expectations are at about the 40 character range, the Majority of them being returnees from Brawl. The reason I considered this being between dream and realism is I added at least an extra four characters above that.

Feel free to ask questions. If any roster specifics get announced I can fix to whatever it specified.

Re: SonicMario's SSB4 Roster Guess

Skimming it, it looks good. Still needs some more Ghirahim.

I would have liked it more if you grouped it by series, since I don't really like looking at it this way.

I really like your newcomer choices though overall.

Re: SonicMario's SSB4 Roster Guess

I don't think that's enough characters, but it's a good place to start.

Re: SonicMario's SSB4 Roster Guess

Matt Foley said:

I don't think that's enough characters, but it's a good place to start.

Click to expand...

I actually think if you don't think this roster is big enough, you're expecting a little too much. The roster number change of Melee to Brawl was 10 characters. And I expect that the roster expansion will be equal to that or even less.

Re: SonicMario's SSB4 Roster Guess

Actually, it could use like 5 more characters imo.

Re: SonicMario's SSB4 Roster Guess (UPDATE: Version 2.0 on Reply #5)

Made a new more educated roster guess. Toon Link's confirmation has given me an idea on what is in store for the roster of SSB4. The characters in the big rectangle are all characters that are confirmed or veterans that are sort of obvious along with a few plausible newcomers.

The characters paired by two on the sides of the roster are either in a competition where only one can get in, or neither of them can (The ones in red) and the ones in green where one of them could possibly replace the other but there is the chance they both can make it through.





COLOR CODE
Blue = Confirmed or Guessed to be a Starter and/or Practically Obvious
Red = If one of these are confirmed, the other is likely not playable. Also have a possibility of neither getting in.
Yellow = Unconfirmed or Guessed to be an Unlockable
Green = Either one or both of these characters are in

CHANGES MADE FROM THE PREVIOUS ROSTER

Mario Series
Nothing has changed regarding those already obvious within the Mario series. As we know Peach and Luigi were all confirmed to no surprise other then being shown pretty darn early. But regarding a potential fifth spot, Toad being a part of Peach's moveset again with absolutely no color change seems to have had his chances decrease a lot. And as fun as the idea of Waluigi might of been. it does seem like it'd be a stretch to add him to what's supposed to be a game of Nintendo all-stars. Which leaves only 2 candidates. Paper Mario and Bowser Jr. If one of them makes it, the other isn't. But it's also just as likely neither get in and Sakurai's satisfied with the four characters already under the Mushroom symbol. My personal choice here would actually go to Paper Mario. Yes yes, complain all you want that Paper Mario might be just a Mario clone like Toon Link was. But if Paper Mario actually uses more stuff from the RPGs that Mario's incapable of having. The Mario RPG's can get the representation many think that it deserves. If you want a rep from the Mario RPGs, Paper Mario is your best bet. No matter how many suggest Geno.

DK Series
Diddy Kong yet has to be confirmed but who really thinks he's gone? The only change really is the possibility of a 3rd spot for the DK series. And there's only two candidates that really fit the bill. And that's Dixie Kong and King K. Rool. Both characters can't make it. So it all depends on what Sakurai finds more important in representing the DK series. Major role and more possibilities for a unique moveset would mean K. Rool gets the nod. Relevancy because of Tropical Freeze and easier to emulate (She could be a semi-clone of Diddy) then it will be Dixie. However just like the Mario series, I could also see Sakurai already satisfied with just DK and Diddy. And just move on from there. My personal choice between the two would be King K. Rool because he's one of the most wanted villains in the roster besides Ridley and he needs some much needed love after we haven't seen him in a long time. Bringing him into Smash would do just that.

Legend of Zelda Series
Last time I couldn't really pick a fourth spot for Zelda because I wasn't entirely knowledgeable about the Zelda series on what'd2 be the most important after the already eternal Hyrule trio of Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf. Because much like most people, I thought Toon Link was going to be cut. But lo and behold, Toon Link got confirmed on the Japanese release date of Wind Waker HD and actually give me a sigh of relief since I'm pretty sure this means we know that the Zelda series is not changing it's representation that was in Brawl. I fully expect Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf to return as I've always said. It's probably just a shame for anyone hoping for another Zelda rep that wasn't another Link. But Sakurai likes having more then one Link, and that's what factored into the return of Toon Link.

Metroid Series
Oh boy, while I'm sure Samus will have Zero Suit Samus still. The reveal of the Pyrosphere stage leaves me a bit worried about Ridley's chances of being playable. Even if it's kinda odd that Sakurai would be teasing the stage and it would feel a kick in the balls to any Ridley Supporters who waited this long just for Ridley to end up as a Stage Hazard. I suppose even if Ridley is shown, it's possible that it will be the Other M Ridley while a Ridley more like from the older games is playable. But I don't know how likely that is. That seems far more farfetched then when ROBs were shown to be enemies in Subspace but a character ROB showed up anyway. I'm afraid once again Samus will be alone in the Metroid representation.

Star Fox Series
Not really a big change, but as you can see I put Falco and Wolf together on the bottom away from Fox. Because there's the possibility they could cut one in favor of the other. But the green space means they could both be in anyway. And I kinda think that's what they'll do. But we'll have to see.

Pokemon Series
In my previous roster, I assumed Lucario was going to be one of the cuts. However the announcement of mega evolutions have suddenly made Lucario more relevant again. Plus the reveal of Toon Link means there's no such thing as a guaranteed cut. Meaning I think either Mewtwo or Lucario will make it in. And even a possibility they'll add them both.

Fire Emblem Series
In terms of Fire Emblem representation. Marth's the only shoe-in at this point. As Chrom of the newest FE game could replace Ike the same way Ike essentially took Roy's spot. However I do think there's still a possibility for Fire Emblem to have three reps so that all three have their space.

3rd Party (Sorry if this one's a bit long-winded)
Last time I gave 3rd Party four spots. Since then, I feel that while it is still the absolute maximum I believe SSB4 will allow. It's probably not the most realistic. I'm thinking Megaman and Sonic's spots are basically set in stone (Well more so Megaman's since he's confirmed of course) but as for that 3rd spot? Look no further on what was the other 3rd party that was in Brawl and ever since we found out who was working on the game what the most likely Newcomer 3rd party is. Snake and Pac-Man. I think if one of them are confirmed, the other likely isn't in the game. Snake has the fact he was in a previous game on his side but what he doesn't is that there's been no sign Konami's really done much for Nintendo lately. The only Metal Gear Solid game released on Nintendo systems recently was a remake of Snake Eater on the 3DS. And the next MGS game isn't on any Nintendo systems at all. Meaning unless Kojima's begging to Sakurai was for the entire Smash Bros. franchise instead of just one game. Then Snake's likely not returning unfortunately. Then you have Pac-Man who ever since we knew Namco was working on the game, we knew his chances sharply rose more then most 3rd parties. However there's one thing against him, he wasn't nearly as requested as Sonic or Mega Man were. His inclusion would be something entirely new. It wouldn't have been a personal request of a friend as Snake was, or a huge popularity like Sonic or Megaman got. He would get in simply because a 3rd party company asked if he got in as they worked on the game. Which may feel sort of like a cop-out reason to include him. Yes, Pac-Man's is very iconic but arguably makes less sense to include in SSB then Snake was. Because at least Snake's first game was on a Nintendo console. Pac-Man's been around since the Arcade days. And before even Nintendo really hit big. His inclusion I think would meet with mixed results. There will be Pac-Man supporters that kinda like the idea of one of the first video game mascots and it'd bring a sort of appeal to people who remember Pac-Man amongst the Mainstream audience. But that doesn't mean there won't be those dissenters that will think Pac-Man doesn't have a lot to do with Nintendo unlike Sonic and Megaman's history regardless of how many games Pac-Man has had on the Gamecube and Wii. Because you don't really see anyone hyped up for the next Pac-Man game anymore. Most people remember the arcade games, not the recent Pac-Man games. Both of these characters have questionable resumes coming in to SSB4 for different reasons, and I believe that at this moment if one makes it. The other probably isn't. But there's also the possibility Sakurai would restrict it to the two third parties that earned it through popularity only. Leaving Sonic and Megaman as the only third parties. If I had to choose which between Snake and Pac-Man I'd want more, I'd actually pick Snake just to thank him for even basically opening the window for 3rd parties in Smash. Without Snake being included in Brawl, we might have never gotten Sonic and Megaman in Smash. And it'd be a shame to see him go as he really is a part of the franchise's history.

STATS
32-36 Veterans
5-9 Newcomers
37-45 Total Characters

Mario: 4-5
Yoshi: 1
DK: 2-3
Legend of Zelda: 5 (Including Sheik)
Metroid: 2 (Including Zero Suit Samus)
Kid Icarus: 1
Kirby: 3
Star Fox: 2-3
F-Zero: 1
Pokemon: 6-7 (Including Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon)
Fire Emblem: 2-3
Earthbound: 2
Animal Crossing: 1
Pikmin: 1
Retro: 4 (Includes Little Mac despite the recent Punch-Out game for the Wii)
Misc. Nintendo: 3 (Shulk, Wii Fit Trainer, Mii)
3rd Party: 2-3

Re: SonicMario's SSB4 Roster Guess (UPDATE: Version 2.0 on Reply #5)

You know, I never even considered Paper Mario. Paper Mario, in my opinion, is definately better than both Waluigi and Bowser Jr. And because of Sticker Star, it's plausible. Hmmm....

Re: SonicMario's SSB4 Roster Guess (UPDATE: Version 2.0 on Reply #5)

I rather have no Paper Mario in SSB4. King K. Rool, Bowser Jr, Waluigi and Daisy are definitely better choices than Paper Mario.

Re: SonicMario's SSB4 Roster Guess (UPDATE: Version 2.0 on Reply #5)

i still think waluigi would be way better than bj or paper mario

Re: SonicMario's SSB4 Roster Guess (UPDATE: Version 2.0 on Reply #5)

Sprag94 said:

I rather have no Paper Mario in SSB4. King K. Rool, Bowser Jr, Waluigi and Daisy are definitely better choices than Paper Mario.

Click to expand...

Pearl said:

i still think waluigi would be way better than bj or paper mario

Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong. I wouldn't be upset if either Bowser Jr. or Waluigi got the fifth Mario spot. It's just I believe Paper Mario's sort of the more likely at the moment. I wouldn't mind Bowser Jr. taking the spot, and while Waluigi would surprise me. He does have Smash potential that might make him a more exciting then most Mario newcomers. (Thought I disagree that Daisy's a better choice then Paper Mario myself :P)

And Sprag, King K. Rool is in no competition with Bowser the Mario characters. His competition is Dixie Kong

Re: SonicMario's SSB4 Roster Guess (UPDATE: Version 2.0 on Reply #5)

I find Paper Mario to be the least likely of the three, personally.

Re: SonicMario's SSB4 Roster Guess (UPDATE: Version 2.0 on Reply #5)

I agree, but like I said, out of the three, i now find Paper Mario to be the most intriguing.

Re: SonicMario's SSB4 Roster Guess (UPDATE: Version 2.0 on Reply #5)

Don't mean to forcefully nudge. But besides Paper Mario, what do you think overall of the roster here? I know there are probably going to be a few things I might be wrong about (Like maybe Shulk, I really have no idea how good his chances are. I just assume so since I hear Xenoblade's developed essentially a cult, not to mention it will have a sequel called X ). But otherwise, at least in the actual number of characters the game will have I feel it might be quite close to what the final roster of SSB4 could be.

Re: SonicMario's SSB4 Roster Guess (UPDATE: Version 2.0 on Reply #5)

welp time for ya to update XD

well since mewtwo is important now.

I am going to bet he'll come back too.

Re: SonicMario's SSB4 Roster Guess (UPDATE: Version 2.1 on Reply #14)

Alright Version 2.1!

Not many changes. The only changes really are the roster icons (Confirmed characters changed to their current artworks and Pac-Man's changed to the current Pac-Man design). Unconfirmed characters stick with their Brawl artworks or the artworks I previously used.

And the Blue and Yellow colored border made more simple. Blue simply means they've been confirmed. Yellow means they have not even if they're obvious. Red and Green mean the same though.





COLOR CODE
Blue = Confirmed
Red = If one of these are confirmed, the other is likely not playable. Also have a possibility of neither getting in.
Yellow = Unconfirmed
Green = Either one or both of these characters are in

Re: SonicMario's SSB4 Roster Guess (UPDATE: Version 3.0 on Reply #15)

Ok, I think it's time for another Roster Update. I believe I've changed it enough to consider it Version 3.0. Even if there's not many changes other then Marth's confirmed and there's a new character section.



Changes
Somewhat Revamped design
Marth Confirmed
Question Marks representing Characters that might be there
Ideal and Less Ideal Roster + Compromised Roster Between the Two (Found below)
Ideas for a possible surprise retro newcomer

Question Mark Clarifications
2nd Row: One of the Starfox spots. If Starfox is downgrading in rep number at all. I'm sure they're not going to remove both Falco and Wolf. So that's a guaranteed Star Fox rep spot
3rd Row: Spot for a possible DK Newcomer, and the 3rd Starfox rep should Star Fox remain unchanged
4th Row: You know we're getting one or the other or even both between Mewtwo and Lucario. How can you deny that? And I believe either Ike or Chrom will definitely have that 2nd spot for Fir Emblem
5th Row: Spot for a possible Mario newcomer, one spot for a surprise retro newcomer, the fifth spot for Pokemon if Mewtwo and Lucario both make it. Same for Fire Emblem if Marth, Ike, and Chrom all together get in
6th Row: The 3rd 3rd Party spot if it exists. I'm not all that confident in the possibility of 4 3rd parties still

Not many changes are actually added this time besides layout change. The only character change is that I'm bringing up the possibility of a surprise retro character being in SSB4. While there was no real surprise retro in SSB64, as Ness couldn't have really been considered retro at the time SSB64 was new. But since Melee, there's at least been one or two retro characters that have made it into Smash to celebrate Nintendo's history. Melee and Brawl both had a starter and an unlockable that only had one or two games to their credit but still Sakurai implemented them into Smash. In one occasion, even reviving the character's franchise from the dead. In Melee, it was the Ice Climbers and Mr. Game and Watch. Sakurai for one reason or another seemed fond of the duo or even the game Ice Climber enough to include them as the series first and currently only duo character, and Mr. Game and Watch was probably for many gamers who unlocked him the first time wondering who the heck he was when this was a character that actually was here even before Mario was a huge hit. Both were surprising, but welcome additions to Smash Bros. In Brawl, our two retro additions were Pit and ROB. Pit before having his franchise kinda revived with Uprising (Also directed by Sakurai) had only two games, one for the NES that was sort of a Metroid clone, and a Gameboy game that funnily enough was sold only in America and not in Japan. And of course ROB refers to an age where the game industry was in trouble, and ROB was Nintendo's attempts to not lose so much by disguising ROB as a toy. It's debatable just how exactly effective he was in ending the big Video Game crash of the 80's. But nonetheless, Sakurai used him in Brawl to commemorate this occasion. This brings up one question: Well we get two retro or at least formerly retro characters in SSB4? You may see that from the very beginning I've had Little Mac on my roster for a while now. A lot of people are expecting his appearance, especially now that we already have a confirmed Boxing stage. He could effectively be the Starter retro character even if of course he's technically no longer retro because of the Punch-Out game on the Wii. But for this case, that's what we'll consider him. As for the unlockable retro character? I have four characters that are possibilities. I don't know too much about them more then any of you guys do, but I have researched a little bit as these characters have been mentioned as possibilities should Sakurai look for retro characters to bring to Smash 4.

There is the Sheriff. It's likely that the only exposure we've had to his game is the microgram in the first Wario Ware game where you shoot 1 or 2 enemies before the short timer runs out. I've seen him brought up as a possibility for Smash, bringing a cowboy fighting style to Smash Bros.

Then there's Sukapon, who actually is from a fighting game already so may have a smoother transition to Smash more then most would anyway. Sukapon's probably a lot more likely then Rayman if Nintendo really wants to reach for a fighter with no arms or legs. And they don't have to appease a company that backstabbed them with taking out their exclusive deal.

The 3rd one is Mach Rider. He's a motorcyclist that could bring some interesting things to the table. I hear that Sakurai also really likes this guy. He just hasn't had the time to add him in either Melee or Brawl for one reason or another. There's a distinct possibility he could save him for SSB4 though. Characters that Sakurai personally like tend to have an advantage over a lot of other characters

And last but not least we have Takumaru, which actually may be the most likely of these 4. You may be asking why. Have you noticed Nintendo Land. Look what franchises in the game that have a Smash Bros. rep that have an attraction in Nintendo land. Mario, Zelda, Pikmin, Metroid, Animal Crossing, Yoshi, Game and Watch, F-Zero, and Donkey Kong make up most of the attractions. The only two that do not have a Smash Bros. rep that does have an attraction in Nintendo Land. Is Balloon Fight and the one based around Takamaru's game. While Balloon Fight might mean that it's not exactly obvious this will mean Takamaru's a shoe-in at all. As we know that Balloon Fighter may as well been deconfirmed when we saw Villager having a helmet and a balloon presumably for his recovery. But I wouldn't say it doesn't bring up the possibility that it's a consideration now. It'd be another sword user sure, but unlike the lords of Fire Emblem, and the Hero of Wings with Link. Takumaru's style can be based on Samurais/Ninjas from Japan, and I think would be a fairly popular idea to expand upon as part of SSB4's roster.

There's still of course the chance that neither of these make it in. Or maybe there's even another retro that even I'm forgetting that will surprise us all. Sakurai's just been known since Melee to not just grab something of recent times, as he seems to have a bit of a backlog about Nintendo's long gaming history. So it's about time we come to expect that Sakurai's going to look to surprise us, so make sure to read Nintendo's history to really get a sense on what Sakurai has planned for a Smash Bros. roster. That weird Retro character you come across that was in that one game might end up being in your hands as a playable character come the release of SSB4.



With that out of the way, I also have more here. Down below are three different versions of this roster. The first is the most ideal version of the roster. With absolutely no cuts and a decent amount of newcomers. This is the roster that would be the absolute best result out of the current roster I have now. The 2nd is something that's not really so much, that one would be the result I would like the least from the possibilities of my current roster. And the last is a bit of a compromise that takes stuff that's good from the ideal but also has it's own limits that the less ideal roster has. This is supposed to give you an idea of the sort of range my roster currently covers. Any newcomer that comes up will effect this roster in the future. Some veteran reveals might also, but it really depends. Marth technially doesn't really change much, it's really only the design and the new additions that upgrade this one to 3.0 more so then anything else. But without further adieu, here are the different versions of my Roster.

MOST IDEAL



Ideal Roster
36 Veterans (Including Mewtwo)
10 Newcomers
46 Total Characters (51-52 including Transformations)

LEAST IDEAL



Less Ideal Roster
32 Veterans (Including Mewtwo)
7 Newcomers
39 Total Characters (44-45 including Transformations)

COMPROMISED



Compromised Roster
34 Veterans (Including Mewtwo)
8-9 Newcomers
42-43 Total Characters (47-49 including Transformations)

Only time will tell which one is closer to the actual roster...

Re: SonicMario's SSB4 Roster Guess (UPDATE: Version 3.0 on Reply #15)

>"most ideal"
>no waluigi

what is this

Re: SonicMario's SSB4 Roster Guess (UPDATE: Version 3.0 on Reply #15)

Pearl said:

>"most ideal"
>no waluigi

what is this

Click to expand...

As entertaining the idea of Waluigi being playable is.

I've kinda lost confidence in him in getting in. I would like to be wrong though. I don't really mind if there's some things I'm wrong about. (Like I could be wrong about Shulk, or wrong about there being no room for 4 3rd parties). Right now (most) veterans don't tell us a whole lot on what's in store for the roster. Newcomers however will effect my predictions heavily I imagine. (Unless of course I predict a newcomer right. Like Little Mac and/or Miis)

Re: SonicMario's SSB4 Roster Guess (UPDATE: Version 3.0 on Reply #15)

Northern Verve said:

Ok, I think it's time for another Roster Update. I believe I've changed it enough to consider it Version 3.0. Even if there's not many changes other then Marth's confirmed and there's a new character section.

Changes
Somewhat Revamped design
Marth Confirmed
Question Marks representing Characters that might be there
Ideal and Less Ideal Roster + Compromised Roster Between the Two (Found below)
Ideas for a possible surprise retro newcomer

Question Mark Clarifications
2nd Row: One of the Starfox spots. If Starfox is downgrading in rep number at all. I'm sure they're not going to remove both Falco and Wolf. So that's a guaranteed Star Fox rep spot
3rd Row: Spot for a possible DK Newcomer, and the 3rd Starfox rep should Star Fox remain unchanged
4th Row: You know we're getting one or the other or even both between Mewtwo and Lucario. How can you deny that? And I believe either Ike or Chrom will definitely have that 2nd spot for Fir Emblem
5th Row: Spot for a possible Mario newcomer, one spot for a surprise retro newcomer, the fifth spot for Pokemon if Mewtwo and Lucario both make it. Same for Fire Emblem if Marth, Ike, and Chrom all together get in
6th Row: The 3rd 3rd Party spot if it exists. I'm not all that confident in the possibility of 4 3rd parties still

Not many changes are actually added this time besides layout change. The only character change is that I'm bringing up the possibility of a surprise retro character being in SSB4. While there was no real surprise retro in SSB64, as Ness couldn't have really been considered retro at the time SSB64 was new. But since Melee, there's at least been one or two retro characters that have made it into Smash to celebrate Nintendo's history. Melee and Brawl both had a starter and an unlockable that only had one or two games to their credit but still Sakurai implemented them into Smash. In one occasion, even reviving the character's franchise from the dead. In Melee, it was the Ice Climbers and Mr. Game and Watch. Sakurai for one reason or another seemed fond of the duo or even the game Ice Climber enough to include them as the series first and currently only duo character, and Mr. Game and Watch was probably for many gamers who unlocked him the first time wondering who the heck he was when this was a character that actually was here even before Mario was a huge hit. Both were surprising, but welcome additions to Smash Bros. In Brawl, our two retro additions were Pit and ROB. Pit before having his franchise kinda revived with Uprising (Also directed by Sakurai) had only two games, one for the NES that was sort of a Metroid clone, and a Gameboy game that funnily enough was sold only in America and not in Japan. And of course ROB refers to an age where the game industry was in trouble, and ROB was Nintendo's attempts to not lose so much by disguising ROB as a toy. It's debatable just how exactly effective he was in ending the big Video Game crash of the 80's. But nonetheless, Sakurai used him in Brawl to commemorate this occasion. This brings up one question: Well we get two retro or at least formerly retro characters in SSB4? You may see that from the very beginning I've had Little Mac on my roster for a while now. A lot of people are expecting his appearance, especially now that we already have a confirmed Boxing stage. He could effectively be the Starter retro character even if of course he's technically no longer retro because of the Punch-Out game on the Wii. But for this case, that's what we'll consider him. As for the unlockable retro character? I have four characters that are possibilities. I don't know too much about them more then any of you guys do, but I have researched a little bit as these characters have been mentioned as possibilities should Sakurai look for retro characters to bring to Smash 4.

There is the Sheriff. It's likely that the only exposure we've had to his game is the microgram in the first Wario Ware game where you shoot 1 or 2 enemies before the short timer runs out. I've seen him brought up as a possibility for Smash, bringing a cowboy fighting style to Smash Bros.

Then there's Sukapon, who actually is from a fighting game already so may have a smoother transition to Smash more then most would anyway. Sukapon's probably a lot more likely then Rayman if Nintendo really wants to reach for a fighter with no arms or legs. And they don't have to appease a company that backstabbed them with taking out their exclusive deal.

The 3rd one is Mach Rider. He's a motorcyclist that could bring some interesting things to the table. I hear that Sakurai also really likes this guy. He just hasn't had the time to add him in either Melee or Brawl for one reason or another. There's a distinct possibility he could save him for SSB4 though. Characters that Sakurai personally like tend to have an advantage over a lot of other characters

And last but not least we have Takumaru, which actually may be the most likely of these 4. You may be asking why. Have you noticed Nintendo Land. Look what franchises in the game that have a Smash Bros. rep that have an attraction in Nintendo land. Mario, Zelda, Pikmin, Metroid, Animal Crossing, Yoshi, Game and Watch, F-Zero, and Donkey Kong make up most of the attractions. The only two that do not have a Smash Bros. rep that does have an attraction in Nintendo Land. Is Balloon Fight and the one based around Takamaru's game. While Balloon Fight might mean that it's not exactly obvious this will mean Takamaru's a shoe-in at all. As we know that Balloon Fighter may as well been deconfirmed when we saw Villager having a helmet and a balloon presumably for his recovery. But I wouldn't say it doesn't bring up the possibility that it's a consideration now. It'd be another sword user sure, but unlike the lords of Fire Emblem, and the Hero of Wings with Link. Takumaru's style can be based on Samurais/Ninjas from Japan, and I think would be a fairly popular idea to expand upon as part of SSB4's roster.

There's still of course the chance that neither of these make it in. Or maybe there's even another retro that even I'm forgetting that will surprise us all. Sakurai's just been known since Melee to not just grab something of recent times, as he seems to have a bit of a backlog about Nintendo's long gaming history. So it's about time we come to expect that Sakurai's going to look to surprise us, so make sure to read Nintendo's history to really get a sense on what Sakurai has planned for a Smash Bros. roster. That weird Retro character you come across that was in that one game might end up being in your hands as a playable character come the release of SSB4.



With that out of the way, I also have more here. Down below are three different versions of this roster. The first is the most ideal version of the roster. With absolutely no cuts and a decent amount of newcomers. This is the roster that would be the absolute best result out of the current roster I have now. The 2nd is something that's not really so much, that one would be the result I would like the least from the possibilities of my current roster. And the last is a bit of a compromise that takes stuff that's good from the ideal but also has it's own limits that the less ideal roster has. This is supposed to give you an idea of the sort of range my roster currently covers. Any newcomer that comes up will effect this roster in the future. Some veteran reveals might also, but it really depends. Marth technially doesn't really change much, it's really only the design and the new additions that upgrade this one to 3.0 more so then anything else. But without further adieu, here are the different versions of my Roster.

MOST IDEAL

Ideal Roster
36 Veterans (Including Mewtwo)
10 Newcomers
46 Total Characters (51-52 including Transformations)

LEAST IDEAL

Less Ideal Roster
32 Veterans (Including Mewtwo)
7 Newcomers
39 Total Characters (44-45 including Transformations)

COMPROMISED

Compromised Roster
34 Veterans (Including Mewtwo)
8-9 Newcomers
42-43 Total Characters (47-49 including Transformations)

Only time will tell which one is closer to the actual roster...

Click to expand...

This image is awesome just that some important characters are missing

Re: SonicMario's SSB4 Roster Guess (UPDATE: Version 3.0 on Reply #15)

The Shy Guy said:

This image is awesome just that some important characters are missing

Click to expand...

Feel free to tell me what those are. And I can tell why I don't have them, or if you have a good suggestion that I could consider for the next time I update my roster.

Re: SonicMario's SSB4 Roster Guess (UPDATE: Version 3.0 on Reply #15)

Northern Verve said:

Pearl said:

>"most ideal"
>no waluigi

what is this

Click to expand...

As entertaining the idea of Waluigi being playable is.

I've kinda lost confidence in him in getting in. I would like to be wrong though. I don't really mind if there's some things I'm wrong about. (Like I could be wrong about Shulk, or wrong about there being no room for 4 3rd parties). Right now (most) veterans don't tell us a whole lot on what's in store for the roster. Newcomers however will effect my predictions heavily I imagine. (Unless of course I predict a newcomer right. Like Little Mac and/or Miis)

Click to expand...

i still think he's more likely than paper mario

Re: SonicMario's SSB4 Roster Guess (UPDATE: Version 3.0 on Reply #15)

i can't see either happening tbh

i'm thinking that we'll either get bowser jr, we get a surprise in the form of toad, or we don't get any mario newcomer at all

Re: SonicMario's SSB4 Roster Guess (UPDATE: Version 3.0 on Reply #15)

If I'm wrong I'll adjust and be fine with that. The fun of keeping a speculative roster is seeing how much I do get right. And see how Sakurai decides to pull something that shocks me. Surprise reveals are best reveals.

To be fair though. I do think no Mario newcomer at all is just as possible as getting one.

Re: SonicMario's SSB4 Roster Guess (UPDATE: Version 3.1 on Reply #23)



Minor changes here.

But with Rosalina's confirmation I think I can confidently say that the Mario representation is done with. Sorry Toad, Bowser Jr., Waluigi, Paper Mario, etc. fans.

Other then that though there's not many major changes to the roster here buuuuuut I did a possible unconfirmed character that could possibly be in the game. Chibi-Robo because of the recent title for 3DS announced in the direct. I've seen Chibi-Robo come up in Smash Discussions before but while it is a distinct possibility it's not until now (Now that it has recency, which is something Rosalina benefited from)

I've also removed Sukapon and Sheriff from the retro newcomer spot. Since Takumaru and Mach Rider really are the more likely of those four anyway.

Re: SonicMario's SSB4 Roster Guess (UPDATE: Version 3.1 on Reply #23)

Do you plan to update this soon?

Not trying to be like "update", but you keep such a nice and clean list...